Steam engine patterns for casting

[Tomc938]

Does anyone know where I could find patterns for steam engine patterns for casting? I’ve looked around and can’t seem to find any. I’d like to cast some parts and make my own engines after I am done the ones I am currently working on. Good excuse to try cast iron casting. (I know that’s a whole discussion)

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Does anyone know where I could find patterns for steam engine patterns for casting? I’ve looked around and can’t seem to find any. I’d like to cast some parts and make my own engines after I am done the ones I am currently working on. Good excuse to try cast iron casting. (I know that’s a whole discussion)

Your best bet is to 3D print your own patterns. I haven't found any for purchase in 2 decades of looking. I heard that there was a fellow in SW ontario who bought up a whole stock of patterns for engines and may have been selling castings. I even had their catalog but never ended up getting castings from them. Mainly because they were old school without internet. I heard they bought out a foundry person in the US who died or was old and ill. I wish my memory was better

Edit, if you have an engine or two in mind I'd be very interested in such a project because I already have a couple engines I started to make patterns for.

 

[David]

Does anyone know where I could find patterns for steam engine patterns for casting? I’ve looked around and can’t seem to find any. I’d like to cast some parts and make my own engines after I am done the ones I am currently working on. Good excuse to try cast iron casting. (I know that’s a whole discussion)

I’d been keen to try this too.

 

[Tomc938]

Your best bet is to 3D print your own patterns. I haven't found any for purchase in 2 decades of looking. I heard that there was a fellow in SW ontario who bought up a whole stock of patterns for engines and may have been selling castings. I even had their catalog but never ended up getting castings from them. Mainly because they were old school without internet. I heard they bought out a foundry person in the US who died or was old and ill. I wish my memory was better

Edit, if you have an engine or two in mind I'd be very interested in such a project because I already have a couple engines I started to make patterns for.

Sorry about the lack of clarity in my initial post, sometimes I wonder if English is really my first language.

I’m looking for stl files so I can print the patterns and then cast.

I also wonder if it might be possible, if there is nothing already, to start an stl cooperative and come up with some files.

At this time I’m still looking at simple engines. I have a PM research #1 and 3 in the works, but sourcing from them is not an option at this point. And Stuart had some nice options, but they are a little pricy, especially with shipping.

 

[PeterT]

My guess is the patterns is what kit builders are probably holding pretty close unless there are special circumstances. And of course the drawings that go with them that would make the castings alone kind of useless. But more & more discussion on 3DP parts from which to make castings. This fellow (GreenTwin) has been posting a lot on HMEM. He has casting experience too, actually before he dabbled in 3DP. Including iron which AFAIK is kind of the big leagues. Like most things you read, there are many ways to do it, so you have to kind of sort that out for yourself.

Ball Hopper Monitor - Casting Project

I have seen others build ball hopper monitor kits, and I had a kit from Lone Star, which I sold a few years ago. I wanted a larger ball hopper monitor than the kit, which had 9" diameter flywheels. I have been working on the 3D models for a Ball Hopper Monitor, and have made a little progress...

www.homemodelenginemachinist.com

 

[TorontoBuilder]

Sorry about the lack of clarity in my initial post, sometimes I wonder if English is really my first language.

I’m looking for stl files so I can print the patterns and then cast.

I also wonder if it might be possible, if there is nothing already, to start an stl cooperative and come up with some files.

At this I’m still looking at simple engines. I have a PM research #1 and 3 in the works, but sourcing from them is not an option at this point. And Stuart had some nice options, but they are a little pricy, especially with shipping.

I'll be happy to share any 3D files I make. I plan a lot of investment cast parts, but can make mould boxes to make cores if anyone wants to pursue traditional sand casting too.

I love live steam.... love it love it love it

 

[trlvn]

A fellow in Elmira, Ontario offers a few casting kits for steam and gas engines:

Canadian Model Engineering

Welcome to the Canadian Model Engineering website. You will find Steam Engines, Boiler Kits, Gas Engines, Hot Air Engines, Milling Machines, Lathes, Tooling, and more.

www.cmodele.com

(Your browser may complain about security since this site does not use https.)

Craig

 

[TorontoBuilder]

My guess is the patterns is what kit builders are probably holding pretty close unless there are special circumstances. And of course the drawings that go with them that would make the castings alone kind of useless. But more & more discussion on 3DP parts from which to make castings. This fellow (GreenTwin) has been posting a lot on HMEM. He has casting experience too, actually before he dabbled in 3DP. Including iron which AFAIK is kind of the big leagues. Like most things you read, there are many ways to do it, so you have to kind of sort that out for yourself.

Ball Hopper Monitor - Casting Project

I have seen others build ball hopper monitor kits, and I had a kit from Lone Star, which I sold a few years ago. I wanted a larger ball hopper monitor than the kit, which had 9" diameter flywheels. I have been working on the 3D models for a Ball Hopper Monitor, and have made a little progress...

www.homemodelenginemachinist.com

HMEM is a great resource that I've been neglecting to visit the last year or two...

 

[Tomc938]

My guess is the patterns is what kit builders are probably holding pretty close unless there are special circumstances. And of course the drawings that go with them that would make the castings alone kind of useless. But more & more discussion on 3DP parts from which to make castings. This fellow (GreenTwin) has been posting a lot on HMEM. He has casting experience too, actually before he dabbled in 3DP. Including iron which AFAIK is kind of the big leagues. Like most things you read, there are many ways to do it, so you have to kind of sort that out for yourself.

Ball Hopper Monitor - Casting Project

I have seen others build ball hopper monitor kits, and I had a kit from Lone Star, which I sold a few years ago. I wanted a larger ball hopper monitor than the kit, which had 9" diameter flywheels. I have been working on the 3D models for a Ball Hopper Monitor, and have made a little progress...

www.homemodelenginemachinist.com

You’re right! You would need the pattern files and the measured drawings so you know finished dimensions.

With the advances in CAD software it might not be too tough to work out a pattern. I’ve tried converting a picture to a Fusion 360 drawing but it was a while ago and I think it was a bit of a hassle.

Anyone have experience using a cell phone to do a 3D scan? Might make the process easier if they have advanced to a point where they are easier to use and more accurate. I might have to look into this further.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

You’re right! You would need the pattern files and the measured drawings so you know finished dimensions.

With the advances in CAD software it might not be too tough to work out a pattern. I’ve tried converting a picture to a Fusion 360 drawing but it was a while ago and I think it was a bit of a hassle.

Anyone have experience using a cell phone to do a 3D scan? Might make the process easier if they have advanced to a point where they are easier to use and more accurate. I might have to look into this further.

Patterns are easy to create from a drawing, or scaled finished dimensions if you follow certain rules. One is to scale up the part to account for shrinkage based on the metals to be cast, two is to allow sufficient machining allowances, and three is to accommodate draft if using sand casting.

No need to scale or scan actual engines, but if you have access to such things great. I have a lot of plans to base engine patterns from.

 

[PeterT]

I'm sure there are tons of established designs out there, either as purchasable plans or through back issues of Model Engineer, Live Steam, Engineering in Miniature etc. They typically did a multi-issue build articles with dimensioned plans & lots of added information when it comes to machining steps, running or whatever. Some designs may have been casting based back in the day, many might be bar stock for which castings could be adapted & maybe improve the model. But I'm trying to say the drawings containing the necessary 50-500 'other' parts beyond the 5-15 castings is kind of a prerequistite IMO. I think 3DP + CAD has put a new spin on this aspect & many hobbyists already have the necessary experience. But the forge & related supplies is still an undertaking as I understand it.

I'd like to do aluminum casting one day for gas engines. Right now I'm the bystander mode. Its a rabbit hole & not without cost. If you want to do finer detail, typically casting investment & vacuum assist enters the picture. But Hey, the challenge & fun & results is what its all about right? @Mcgyver has shown some of his stuff in this regard.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I'm sure there are tons of established designs out there, either as purchasable plans or through back issues of Model Engineer, Live Steam, Engineering in Miniature etc. They typically did a multi-issue build articles with dimensioned plans & lots of added information when it comes to machining steps, running or whatever. Some designs may have been casting based back in the day, many might be bar stock for which castings could be adapted & maybe improve the model. But I'm trying to say the drawings containing the necessary 50-500 'other' parts beyond the 5-15 castings is kind of a prerequistite IMO. I think 3DP + CAD has put a new spin on this aspect & many hobbyists already have the necessary experience. But the forge & related supplies is still an undertaking as I understand it.

I'd like to do aluminum casting one day for gas engines. Right now I'm the bystander mode. Its a rabbit hole & not without cost. If you want to do finer detail, typically casting investment & vacuum assist enters the picture. But Hey, the challenge & fun & results is what its all about right? @Mcgyver has shown some of his stuff in this regard.

with the advent of 3d additive printing, specialty filaments and resins, investment casting is the way to go by far.

Vacuum casting flasks and machines can be made by any experienced DIYer.
Lots of options exist though, waterglass techniques that go way beyond making mould cores, and old reliable sand casting.

I have a 3d model for an old autotype transfer press that I'm making a reproduction of using sand casting. I have the patterns ready to print, or route on cnc router

I used key dimensions from an actual vintage press and photos sent to me by the owner of the press to generate the model. photogammetry makes it easy peasy

I forgot to add the key points I got the dimensions of...

 

[PeterT]

Vacuum casting flasks and machines can be made by any experienced DIYer.
Lots of options exist though, waterglass techniques that go way beyond making mould cores, and old reliable sand casting.

If you have found/saved any good links, or websites or whatever I'd be interested to absorb. Doesn't have to be this thread if you think belongs in separate resource thread, up to you.

I bought a few books based on a friends recommendation (mostly by Ammen). On my to-do list. And of course some YouTube stuff, some good, some less so. What I'm finding is its a broad field. What might work fine on a larger or less featured casting would be more challenging or impossible on other castings. Aluminum is different than brass or CI etc. My buddy is more jewelry focused but knows what I ideally want to accomplish, say detailed 1/4-scale finned cylinders, heads etc. which are more like jewelry anyways LOL. But he said the same thing. The vacuum casting components & melt out kilns can be replicated in home shop.... with effort. (Visions of the YouTuber who made his own heat treat oven - good effort but yikes).

One thing I stumbled on watching a 3DP slicer tutorial. The part can be 'scaled' right there. Even in select dimensions leaving the other as-is. Not sure if this would be better handled in CAD but something that didn't even occur to me. Of course this isn't draft, but if the casting (3DP) needed to be say 9.7% larger to account for overall 3D shrinkage it was just a numerical slicer entry. Also shapes can be parted or Boolean subtracted in slicer. Again, maybe better handled in CAD, but having more tricks in the bag is always beneficial.

 

[djberta]

Super cool thread. Tom have you tried searching using one of the AI's?

Love aluminum casting myself. I have had a gingery inspired furnace since I was a teen. I have a pile of ideas I want to print and cast. Maybe this spring if I can get enough of the house reno's done for my love. She does get some hierarchy in the order of projects.

For those thinking of casting for the first time, just do it. Build a cheap little furnace or even the two bucket charcoal one just to try it. You won't be disappointed. For those casting in cast iron, my hat goes off to you, that is the end dream. Most I have tried after aluminum is some cast brass from shell casings and it basically burned up. I have a better idea on how to do that. 35 years later and all that.

My next casting try out will be 3d printed patterns in water glass forms. Solidify with the co2. Then remove the 3d printed pattern and pour. Ran across a guys ytub videos and he does this and his pours have been unreal and look really good. I have also done lots of lost foam in plaster dip then loose sand. Tried investment with lost pla and it worked but so much time and work to get to the pour.

 

[djberta]

If your interested in lost foam, which can be very easy if you have a cnc, even a small one your cutting foam. Check out Kelly Coffields ytub channel his work on ford engine manifolds has been near perfect. I cut all my foam stuff with a home made hot wire (guitar string) cutter. So not as awesome as some of the cnc stuff.

 

[Tom O]

Maybe we could have a casting meetup as we get closer to Summer, a bring a pattern type of thing.

 

[Tom O]

Does anyone know where I could find patterns for steam engine patterns for casting? I’ve looked around and can’t seem to find any. I’d like to cast some parts and make my own engines after I am done the ones I am currently working on. Good excuse to try cast iron casting. (I know that’s a whole discussion)

How big a pattern are you talking about? I have Dads patterns it’s for a compound engine if I remember right it’s a dual cylinder 1 1/2 & 3” bore as you can see it is made in two parts that bolt together I’m a little worried about the ports though they are on a bit of an angle although I have a plan to build it up with a spray welding kit I got on Kijiji.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

If you have found/saved any good links, or websites or whatever I'd be interested to absorb. Doesn't have to be this thread if you think belongs in separate resource thread, up to you.

I bought a few books based on a friends recommendation (mostly by Ammen). On my to-do list. And of course some YouTube stuff, some good, some less so. What I'm finding is its a broad field. What might work fine on a larger or less featured casting would be more challenging or impossible on other castings. Aluminum is different than brass or CI etc. My buddy is more jewelry focused but knows what I ideally want to accomplish, say detailed 1/4-scale finned cylinders, heads etc. which are more like jewelry anyways LOL. But he said the same thing. The vacuum casting components & melt out kilns can be replicated in home shop.... with effort. (Visions of the YouTuber who made his own heat treat oven - good effort but yikes).

One thing I stumbled on watching a 3DP slicer tutorial. The part can be 'scaled' right there. Even in select dimensions leaving the other as-is. Not sure if this would be better handled in CAD but something that didn't even occur to me. Of course this isn't draft, but if the casting (3DP) needed to be say 9.7% larger to account for overall 3D shrinkage it was just a numerical slicer entry. Also shapes can be parted or Boolean subtracted in slicer. Again, maybe better handled in CAD, but having more tricks in the bag is always beneficial.

I'll comb thru my archives and bookmarks and put together a few posts for this thread.

Jewelry and small engine parts have much in common. Ideally I'd use a an SLA printer with a castable resin and lay out my casting tree in one piece, then investment coat, burn out and cast in aluminum, insert a cylinder sleeve perhaps if needed.

But I can't have an sla printer... so I'll make do with filament printing

 

[PeterT]

But I can't have an sla printer...

tell her you really, Really, REEEALLY need one. And it can make jewelry <or insert applicable bribe keywords>

 

[Mcgyver]

tell her you really, Really, REEEALLY need one. And it can make jewelry <or insert applicable bribe keywords>

catastrophic tactical error imo .... always go with "It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission". Be the caveman you were meant to be.

agreed 3D print is a game changer for casting, almost a necessity in my mind given the time savings. Lost resin for small super detailed parts. Lost filament for things a bit bigger and not as demanding detail/finish wise. For things that would fit in up to say a large soup can, investment and vacuum casting is amazing. For larger than that, it's mostly outside of my experience (some AL in sand, open top, but that was 35 years ago). I'm a secret basement caster in an urban setting who wants to keep things very low key Running a larger furnace and sand casting in back yard or drive way isn't happening. If I get back to the country one day, maybe, but even then it will be based on 3D printed patterns..... the time savings is incredible over having to make a pattern.

I've posted this before, but here is a sample of lost resin detail. A bronze elbow for a live steam model engine with fake flange, bolts and nuts .... copper tube gets silver soldered into it. Incredible detail - those bolts are 1/16" dia!. It's also far more difficult than lost filament, with lots of fails and experiments each taking a weekend, between actual work, print and burnout time.