Sitting Car

[architect]

I am inheriting an old 1995 Buick Regal that's been sitting idle for about 5-6 years. The tires are flat but otherwise looks rather mint for its age with barely any mileage. I'm thinking of pumping-up the tires and swapping in a new battery before getting CCA for a tow to my mechanic.

Anything I should be looking out for? I'd try to start it up and drive it away but read that's not such a great idea, in particular because the old gas should first be removed? Looking for any suggestions or advice from the brains here. I don't have much know-how with cars.

 

[gerritv]

pull the plugs and look inside with a bore scope. At a minimum squirt thin oil into those cylinders before trying to turn it over, and even that is best done by hand.

 

[Susquatch]

AWESOME FIND!!!

Change the oil, drain and flush the fuel system, check for water in the fuel tank (accumulated condensation), drain the tank, and refill with new fuel, check for in-cylinder rust and fog with light oil. Then let it sit a wee bit more. I'd guess you will be ok!

 

[Chicken lights]

Change the fuel filter while you're at it, check for rust in the gas tank. New or spare new wiper blade. Check the doors close and stay closed. If it's electric windows leave them alone unless you're brave. Check for a spare tire, Jack and tire wrench that fits your lug nuts. Look for a locking lug nut.

It's it manual windows roll them down before you test the doors closing and you test locking the keys inside

I don't think CAA will tow it without current tags and insurance

Send pics!

 

[Susquatch]

I don't think CAA will tow it without current tags and insurance

Good point. Actually, I didn't think they would tow it at all because it isn't a road side breakdown. But who knows!

Love your suggestion to test locking the keys inside....

 

[slow-poke]

Lot;s of good advice.

The new ethanol based gas is nasty when it sits for a long time like that.

I wonder what happens with the stale gas in the fuel line? Perhaps the mechanic will run the pump to get what ever is in the line out before sending it to the engine?

I have a modified distributor without the cam gear that I use to spin up the oil pump before engine start each spring, but that was a high dollar engine and worth the 10 minutes it would take for the peace of mind, not really necessary with a stock engine, it should start right up with fresh oil and gas I bet.

 

[architect]

I don't think CAA will tow it without current tags and insurance

Going to throw on some plates and not mention the latter...

that's why I'm pumping up the tires and throwing in a new battery first.

A friend's car wouldn't start in his garage and CCA towed from inside there, so this will be the same scenario

Will send pics once I get this all sorted, hopefully in a few weeks!

 

[phaxtris]

ive resurrected quite a few dead cars over the years, i would check to see if there is oil, and its not full of water, put a battery on it and try, if it doesn't fire up drain the tank, new fuel, try again

you have nothing to loose, the gas is either garbage and it wont fire up, it wont fire up for another reason, or it will (if it does then start with the oil change, fuel filter change (if it has one), etc etc)

ive had project cars towed by caa from the driveway before

 

[slow-poke]

I would be a bit concerned with hydro-locking if too much bad fuel gets in the cylinder. I have seen the aftermath of that and it's not pretty, rods bend like pretzels. I would want to purge that bad fuel

 

[phaxtris]

no way your going to bend a rod on the starter motor, no automotive starter on earth has that much power

if it doesnt fire with in 10-15 seconds of cranking its probably not going to, at wich point you might as well stop and start working the problem. whatever excess fuel that didnt get expelled from the exhaust port will leak past the rings in the time your troubleshooting

 

[DPittman]

ive had project cars towed by caa from the driveway before

I "know a guy" who had a forklift picked up by the local AMA tow truck.

 

[Kernel Sanders]

Where has the car sat? in garage, on ash fault, on gravel or grass? depending on which could give you an idea of the underside condition... though you will have to look anyway. welding in sheet metal isn't too hard but frame rail replacements are no small task. I don't like when I see any bad rust on rails because if its bad where you can see it it's 10x worse inside the rail where you cant see it. Oh and any and I mean any holes in the rocker panels and you'll not easily get safety'd (unless your in Quebec)
If you try to start it and there's crap in the fuel lines you'll be likely looking at replacing injectors. Also look for chewed wiring (ask me how I know, I's seen a lot of that)

drop drain and flush, fuel tank and fuel lines. I'd also drain and flush brake lines... note what comes out. the brake flex lines may look ok on the outside but may be rotten on the inside which could collapse and not let pressure back causing brake partial lockup.

drain oil and replace...

If it were an older than 87 iron block I would make sure the engine turns over (manually with a socket and breaker bar) if it does then I would drain the oil (noting condition) replace with fresh along with new filter. If it wont turn over I'd know what I was upagainst and consider options including giving up the car depending on body condition and the rest of the work if I decided it was still worth it. Without even trying the engine I would rebuild carb (as I said if pre 87).

In my younger days I did a few of these. I still have my 76 4r Dart but I had to replace both front frame rails. Total replacement of the drivetrain, all suspension, all lines and epoxy the inside and out the gas tank. Car still looks like crap but its fun and moves (always with safety in mind... it is a grampa car and I am a grampa anyways lol)

sorry in advance, my brain jumps all over when talking about old cars and their repairs (mostly MOPAR)

 

[Susquatch]

no way your going to bend a rod on the starter motor, no automotive starter on earth has that much power

I'm not so sure of that. I've seen rods bent by hydrostatic compression. I think you are probably right about the power of a starter, but we must also remember momentum.

I've not studied that nor even done any experiments. But regardless of how it happens, I've seen it, so I have to caution against it.

The other reason for draining and flushing the tank is the other crud that gets in there. I don't know much about that stuff, but it can be really nasty crap - especially in a Diesel tank.

 

[slow-poke]

Agreed not likely with just a starter.

Usually happens when a head gasket leaks allowing coolant into the cylinder.

Top fuel there is so much fuel being introduced to the cylinder if it fails to ignite, next time around the rod is going to bend. Those 11,000HP engines consume 22 gallons for a 1/4 mile pass and the engine turns about 700 revolutions during that pass. Then it's time for a rebuild.

 

[phaxtris]

yes top fuel is a different story on many fronts, i could easily see a hydro lock if even one of those cylinders lights off with another full of unburnt fuel

has no one here flooded an engine ? you can crank for days and it will not fire, the overly rich mixture is being tossed out the exhaust port, the same happens with stale fuel, a 20lb injector even stuck fully open (normally they stick closed) does not inject enough fuel in 10 seconds of cranking to hydro lock the engine

lets do the math, a non supercharged 3.8 regal has 205cc/min@3bar injectors, so a fully stuck open is going to flow 3.4cc per second at 44psi, lets round it to 3.8 because a regal runs slightly more than 44psi fuel pressure (and lets say the fuel pump is in tip top shape), in 10 seconds of cranking it could pour in 38cc of fuel. a 3.8l has a cylinder volume of 633cc, with a compression ratio of 9.4:1, so a top dead volume of 67cc, 67/3.8 = 17.6 seconds of cranking to fill the tdc volume and tip the scales to a hydrolock , with a stuck open injector and a stuck closed exhaust valve (assuming the starter has enough umph to bend the pushrod) and no ring leakage. The 67cc of fuel will also be introduced slowly, not as a big slug, cranking speed is going to be greatly reduced as the compression ratio in the cylinder climbs while it fills with fuel (and the battery dies). I would like to see the starter that has enough oomph to bend a rod without an ignition event helping with those circumstances

this thing has only been sitting 5 years, not 25, the fuel is likely bad, but from experience resurrecting old cars and engines for swaps, check the oil and try to crank it, if the injectors are stuck, they are already stuck (closed), the fuel in the line will have had to make it past at least 1 strainer (in 1995 likely also has an inline filter as well) so it should be sediment free. In all likelihood its going to need some parts, best off to see if it lights off before loading up the parts cannon, that gets expensive fast.

im not advocating to fire it up and start driving it around mind you, but before spending a bunch of cash, at least try to fire it up. I have gone both ways, and wasted a lot of money getting a tired engine to run

 

[Susquatch]

im not advocating to fire it up and start driving it around mind you, but before spending a bunch of cash, at least try to fire it up. I have gone both ways, and wasted a lot of money getting a tired engine to run

I'm just not on that page. In Ontario, just sitting outside unused, the normal daily temperature cycles will suck in and condense enough wet air to accumulate several inches of water in one season. Over several seasons, it could be a lot more.

Water is heavier than fuel, so any attempt to start the engine will either plug up the system and/or the injectors with crud or start filling the cylinders with water. The valves are at the top and the rings will hold water better than fuel. Turning the engine over won't flush water out the exhaust valves the way it would flush fuel. It is also possible to accumulate water in the intake system and manifold. One cycle won't be enough to matter. But at some point, the cylinder can accumulate enough water that hydrolock conditions can arise. I don't know if a starter has enough power in it to bend a rod. But the momentum certainly does.

This is NOT a hypothetical situation. I've actually seen it happen! So I can't recommend it.

Maybe in drier weather out west it might be different. Here in the rust belt it's a definite risk.

I too have seen old engines fire right up. So it can happen and kudos to the lucky guy that does it. I'd even give high odds of that. But it's not like it's that hard to flush a tank, and pop the plugs to clean out the intake system. Quite honestly, both should be done anyway. So why not just do it and play it safe? I'm not a gambler, so that's certainly my advice.

 

[KeeponDragon]

Ethanol based gas, when left to sit...will likely turn the fuel lines to mush...
I like watching car revivals (reminds me of my wrecking yard days) on YT...
The hosts almost always disconnect the system from the carb before attempting to fire the engine...and run it off a boat tank with a clicky-clack fuel pump
On your 95, you don't have that option as it's fuel injected...
But you can still disconnect the line from the fuel rail, hot wire the pump relay and push all that shit gas out into a couple of buckets...
Definitely change the filter

Oh and check your brake fluid...
Here's one I have just learned about....hydraulic rubber brake hoses...they can swell over time...if you pump the brakes and they don't release...crack a bleeder and see if the pressure let's off...
It's probably the hose...

 

[architect]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll pass on some of the suggestions to the mechanic. I don't have all the time, tools, or know to do a lot of this. The car has been sitting inside a clean garage all this time, so at least there's that. Hopefully won't have to invest too much cost into getting this running but no complaints here for what looks to be a nice car on the outside.

 

[Susquatch]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll pass on some of the suggestions to the mechanic. I don't have all the time, tools, or know to do a lot of this. The car has been sitting inside a clean garage all this time, so at least there's that. Hopefully won't have to invest too much cost into getting this running but no complaints here for what looks to be a nice car on the outside.

That's the most positive thing I've heard. Hopefully it's an attached garage so the temp cycles are low. I wish I could find an old car like that.

I'd just love to find a 1970 Mustang Mach1 that's been sitting in a Garage for 50 years. I had one back then. It was the best car I ever owned. My younger brother totalled it.

 

[phaxtris]

I'm just not on that page. In Ontario, just sitting outside unused, the normal daily temperature cycles will suck in and condense enough wet air to accumulate several inches of water in one season. Over several seasons, it could be a lot more.

Water is heavier than fuel, so any attempt to start the engine will either plug up the system and/or the injectors with crud or start filling the cylinders with water. The valves are at the top and the rings will hold water better than fuel. Turning the engine over won't flush water out the exhaust valves the way it would flush fuel. It is also possible to accumulate water in the intake system and manifold. One cycle won't be enough to matter. But at some point, the cylinder can accumulate enough water that hydrolock conditions can arise. I don't know if a starter has enough power in it to bend a rod. But the momentum certainly does.

This is NOT a hypothetical situation. I've actually seen it happen! So I can't recommend it.

Maybe in drier weather out west it might be different. Here in the rust belt it's a definite risk.

I too have seen old engines fire right up. So it can happen and kudos to the lucky guy that does it. I'd even give high odds of that. But it's not like it's that hard to flush a tank, and pop the plugs to clean out the intake system. Quite honestly, both should be done anyway. So why not just do it and play it safe? I'm not a gambler, so that's certainly my advice.

if any appreciable amount of water has been sitting in the cylinders for any real time it will be locked up from rust, send it to the wreckers

i didnt move out to alberta until i was in my mid 20's, saved a fair number of clunkers before then, i still stand by checking the oil and seeing if it will crank/fire, if its full of water its f'd anyways so no loss there. If the tanks full of water the pump is likely f'd and its not going to fire.

this is a 1995 buick regal, Its not going to take much $ to tip the scales into wrecking yard territory, i would want to know as fast and as cheaply as possible if it has a hope of living on

Thanks for all the advice. I'll pass on some of the suggestions to the mechanic. I don't have all the time, tools, or know to do a lot of this. The car has been sitting inside a clean garage all this time, so at least there's that. Hopefully won't have to invest too much cost into getting this running but no complaints here for what looks to be a nice car on the outside.

Good luck, if it was driven into that garage in good running condition your chances are good youll be driving it away with new fuel (+filter), battery and an oil change, just be careful its pretty easy to get behind the curve on something like that, with shop rate what it is