Single lip cutter /U3 tool cutter grinder / Deckel SO clone

[Perry]

Ok, the problems with -30C weather is you tend to shop the internet a bit too much.





Anyone own one of these Chinese clones? I've read a little about them. Would like to hear your experience.

I see they are hard to find in a 110-120V machine. Shars sells a 110-120V machine, but most of the ones I see are 220V.

Is there a preferred model? One better then the other? Is there a Canadian supplier? I see Grizzly carried them at one point, but are now discontinued.


Anyone have a lead on a used one or maybe a used Deckel?



Thankyou.

 

[PeterT]

I'm ashamed to confess I have one from Accusize Canada that is waiting on a suitable new workbench construction & related mini shop re-org that always seems to 'next weeks' project. So it has seen very low run time.
https://www.accusizetools.com/2301-...-grinder-with-standard-accessories-110v-60hz/
One thing that influenced my decision as R8 collets vs. the ?name? skinny ones that Deckels & Asian clones predominantly use. I don't think there is disadvantage to R8 from a functionality standpoint, but R8 is much more common, wider size range & less expensive. The Accusize is made in China as are most in this price class. The ones from Taiwan are +2X this price & not sure R8 is an option. Two good resources to watch are Stefan Gotteswinter & Rob Renzetti Youtube vids. They show some of the tweaks & tune-ups they did to their (Chinese) versions. AFAIK both Shars & Grizzly are Chinese.

 

[Perry]

I'm ashamed to confess I have one from Accusize Canada that is waiting on a suitable new workbench construction & related mini shop re-org that always seems to 'next weeks' project. So it has seen very low run time.
https://www.accusizetools.com/2301-...-grinder-with-standard-accessories-110v-60hz/
One thing that influenced my decision as R8 collets vs. the ?name? skinny ones that Deckels & Asian clones predominantly use. I don't think there is disadvantage to R8 from a functionality standpoint, but R8 is much more common, wider size range & less expensive. The Accusize is made in China as are most in this price class. The ones from Taiwan are +2X this price & not sure R8 is an option. Two good resources to watch are Stefan Gotteswinter & Rob Renzetti Youtube vids. They show some of the tweaks & tune-ups they did to their (Chinese) versions. AFAIK both Shars & Grizzly are Chinese.

Wow, you really pay a premium to get that in Canada. It looks like it does not come with the extra tool holding adapters? Lathe bit ,drill and end mill fixtures.

One good thing about the R8 is you can get R8 collects with a square cutout. Would be nice to hold square stock to shape special cutters.

I'm going to keep researching how to get one of these on a hobby budget.

 

[PeterT]

Hmmm, you're right. Not only has Accusize has gone up almost 200$C since I got mine, they have separated off the attachments that came with.

The Shars is currently 917USD with the 3 attachments so thats 1200CDN (FOB Illinois). So add trucking, possibly duty (not sure there). Its heavy so transport wont be cheap. But now I'm actually having a bit of remorse, the Shars is 5C collet which I already have have a full set. That wasn't available at the time, dangit.
https://www.shars.com/products/mach...l-end-mill-cutter-drill-bit-grinder-sharpener

 

[Perry]

Would you know what the difference is between a U2 and a U3? Nothing really documented on it.

 

[PeterT]

I seem to recall they are slightly different machines. I might have some docs at home.

Another thought Im going to investigate is buying the 5C collet block off Shars assuming its a drop in & reasonable cost. Or maybe make a replacement myself.

 

[PeterT]

Hmm.. more to the collet block than just R8/5C hole. It has inter-related parts in the assembly. I looked at the Shars manual & there isn't really isn't a parts breakdown. I will email them & see what they have to say & have a closer look at mine. Yes, definitely buyers remorse. 5C would have been a much better fit to my existing collets.

 

[Perry]

I read a thread about a gentlemen who had ordered a unit and it did not come with the head he wanted. Tried to switch it out and it was not easy. He had to change machines. Let me see if I can find thread.

The reason I asked about the U2 is I found a used U2. (with U2 collets, if that is the correct name.) Only comes with two collets but I was reading that you can make a U2 to ER20 collet adapter. I have a set of ER20 collets.

Let me see if I can find that thread.

 

[Perry]

Ok, found it.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/import-tool-cutter-grinder.51638/

Follow along with user C-Bag. Sounds like he is from the U.S. Bought a unit from Canada. It showed up with the Deckel style collets and he wanted the R8. Ended up swapping the whole machine at their L.A. location to get a R8 collet.

 

[PeterT]

Thanks, that rings a bell. Just checking into this some more I think it’s hands down easier for me to get an R8 collet set. Seems like yet another grip standard but they can be had for less then what I’m sure the 5C head assembly assuming it fits. I guess I could use R8 for my mill too although I have done without them thus far. Haven’t thought this through but there could be other possible R8 tooling synergies, possibly like gripping an R8-ER-16 head or R8- mini drill chuck although not sure what that would accomplish over regular R8 collets.
Back to U1 U2 that might be shorthand notation for the collets themselves? Maybe I’m mixed up by seeing different machines but could be the cooler was the defining feature. Look up SO and SOE. I think maybe there are naming equivalencies more common in Europe. I know RDG tools sell them & possibly square & hex hole. I’ve also seen them on EBay Ali Asaian suppliers but cant speak to quality.

 

[Perry]

I just called Shars. $916.95US for unit. $230-250US shipping to residential address. She was nice enough to tell me I could save by sending it to a commercial address. $140-160US. (I'll ship direct to 7-11, that is where I end up picking most of my packages anyway.....lol....I'm guessing I'll need to find a commercial address to ship to.)

They ship under tarrif item number 8460 3100 80. That shows a Base Rate: Free.
And last but not least ......exchange rate.

On a good side I was able to find out these do go on sale at approx. $825.00.US I was also given the offer of the sale price.


I have found a used U2 unit (Taiwan version) with a 1/2 and a 3/8 U2 style collet. For $850.00 Canadian. I'm waiting to find out if he has the three fixtures with it. Shars comes with the three fixtures.
I would also need to ship this unit from Ontario. Probably some flex in the price.


Something to think about.

 

[Dabbler]

So a pro tip in dealing with Shars. For anything 40 lbs or over you can request by phone to use the ground transport company they prefer (I can't remember the name). That will cut your shipping in about half.

You can also have them ship to a border forwarding service like DYK. Shars ships most items at a significant discount to US addresses. THe DYK fees for 50 lbs might shock you though.

 

[Perry]

So a pro tip in dealing with Shars. For anything 40 lbs or over you can request by phone to use the ground transport company they prefer (I can't remember the name). That will cut your shipping in about half.

You can also have them ship to a border forwarding service like DYK. Shars ships most items at a significant discount to US addresses. THe DYK fees for 50 lbs might shock you though.

Great tips. Thankyou. She did mention the shipping service and I forgot the name too. She said it would be my best option and I believe the quotes I gave above are for that company.

I'll check with DYK on Monday and see what they will cost.

If I use the MAX commercial quote, that only works out to about $200 Canadian. I'm thinking that will be hard to beat by using the forwarding company.

 

[PeterT]

I called Shars too. They must be wondering what the heck is going on with these Canucks LOL. Exact same price you mentioned Perry & they asked same question on residential vs commercial address. At least they are a USA based company receptive to selling to Canada. Alternatively I could get it shipped to my DYK Montana address for reduced (in-USA) shipping. I didn't get a price on that but confirmed DYK estimated 65$ to truck 100 pounds Montana to Calgary. Don't hold me to it but I think after 70 pounds DYK goes by a $/10 lb increment. It may not be published on teh web site. Good to know for future considerations. GST & any duty is always on top of course.

As mentioned I will stick with the R8 spindle. The grinder is bought & paid for. 5C would have been more efficient for me, but it wasn't an option I was aware of or maybe existed back then. I recall the Grizzly worked out more expensive & no longer sell them. But R8 is not the end of the world. I have aspirations for this little grinder but the other projects are taking the spare time for now.

But the big lesson in all this is Accusize is no longer competitive on this particular item assuming they are similar quality, Now otoh, Shars is showing that price as 'sales price'. But I have seen comparable discounts on other items that seem to be in perpetuity, so I'm not sure if its sale-sale or feel good sale.

 

[Perry]

PeterT,

Strange, I do not see that price. It only shows the $916.95. Now you have me worried it is going up in price. Where did you see that?

With the extra 10% off she quoted $825US. Is that the quote she gave you or the $916? (after the discount)

If DYK is looking for approx $65.00 and Shars will ship all the way here for $200.00 Probably not worth the effort to ship to DYK, I can see there being that much cheaper than $140 Cad. to get it to Montana. Plus only one company to deal with.


I'm still waiting on a reply from the Canadian U2 but he is going to have to drop his price and I'm really hoping it has the three attachments with it. Then I'll be stuck with the U2 style collets, but I'll have the Taiwan version which is supposed to be a higher quality.


How would you guys spend my money? Go for the newer machine or a cheaper (questionable higher quality) used machine? The brand of the used U2 in Canada is Michaellin Tools,

 

[PeterT]

Perry, the regular price $1380 comes when you click on the catalog link. The web always shows the current price. But like I was saying, I'm nor sure 'sale' really means 'sale'. I wasn't aware of the $825 but that's because my the conversation was more around possibility of only getting the 5C spindle part. Then I just asked for ballpark shipping to Canada for the entire grinder just to know. One more detail to check into, you may have to self-clear customs as I think their role ends at transporting. I'm not sure what that entails logistics & fees wise, it may vary by the transport outfit they used.

Some folks reference RDG for U1 collets. Vertex is a good name assuming they are legitimate Taiwan. There is non-Taiwan, Chinese collets I've seen but cant vouch for quality.
https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/...N=NEW-VERTEX-U2-COLLET-11MM-1603.html#SID=134

 

[PeterT]

Here's a quote I got from Bauer (BC) in 2017. It is the Taiwan made machine, accessories extra.

 

[Perry]

Ok, I see that price in the catalog. That $825 is looking better now.

Take a look at the used one...... I don't know if it is because it is dirty but it looks better. The metal handles on the locks. The metal knurled knob on the top locking screw. Compared to what looks like plastic handles on the Shars. I know , all these things can be changed, it is the things you can not see that I'm worried about.

 

[Perry]

Here's a quote I got from Bauer (BC) in 2017. It is the Taiwan made machine, accessories extra.

That would end it there. Totally out of my hobby budget. Even if that is Canadian dollars, which I'm guessing it is.

 

[Dabbler]

I think the one from Bauer is speculatively priced...