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Scraping a non-typical tool, please dont become a trend

TorontoBuilder

TorontoBuilder

Ultra Member
I've wanted to acquire a few really nice planes from a long jointer to a good jack plane to go with my several every day planes.

Now after seeing this I want them even more so because I want to hand scrape the soles, engrave my stylized initials onto the sides, and then hand scrape the sides as well.

Squatch wont like this video, it's over 40 minutes long... just skip ahead to see his finished project. The tuber says right off, it is an entertainment project not about functionality improvements

 
Not sure about real world practicality, but they sure look nice & flat cant hurt. I'm not sure planes are cast iron vs steel or by model or year or whatever (in which case maybe the cutting tool geometry might be different than the classic angles). I bought a nice little Veritas (Lee Valley) Apron plane. On their website they say All Veritas plane bodies are fully stress-relieved ductile cast iron, which is dimensionally stable and takes hard knocks without cracking... - so maybe what the older gen planes were made from?

I've been slow on my personal scraping apprenticeship program until I get through some other priorities, but for anyone who doesn't know, our very own @Mcgyver wrote & photographed some of the IMHO best intro scraping articles in these past issues of HSM. And his machine rebuilds involving scraping do the talking.

1729283781155.png
 
PeterT said:
Not sure about real world practicality, but they sure look nice & flat cant hurt. I'm not sure planes are cast iron vs steel or by model or year or whatever (in which case maybe the cutting tool geometry might be different than the classic angles). I bought a nice little Veritas (Lee Valley) Apron plane. On their website they say All Veritas plane bodies are fully stress-relieved ductile cast iron, which is dimensionally stable and takes hard knocks without cracking... - so maybe what the older gen planes were made from?

I've been slow on my personal scraping apprenticeship program until I get through some other priorities, but for anyone who doesn't know, our very own @Mcgyver wrote & photographed some of the IMHO best intro scraping articles in these past issues of HSM. And his machine rebuilds involving scraping do the talking.

View attachment 53019
Click to expand...
I've read a couple of parts of M's series on scraping but I wish I had access to all the back articles... now I can't even find the home shop machinist back issues I had

I am keen on practicing before I attempt anything on my actual lathe. Planes may be just the ticket for that
 
TorontoBuilder said:
wow I dont know why I've never seen his site or planes. If I win the lottery that may be an option.

a very big lottery that is
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I think Konrad has been making planes as a full time job for about 20 years now. He is a great guy and his skill level is just about off the charts. He fairs all the curves by eye and hand files the chamfers just so. The plane bodies are all joined with peened double dovetails. He makes these planes to be used even though some people buy them just to display. They will all take wispy shavings in the gnarliest wood. BTW, he had an outstanding stash of exotic woods. Rosewood, Blackwood, Ebony, ... you name it! You can order a plane with your choice of wood and metals (bronze, stainless, tool steel, ...).

Craig
(The wait list used to be around 2 years but I don't know where it is nowadays.)
 
Search for "In-fill or infill planes, and you "will"find a PILE of great craftsmen and women. Both Modern, AND Ancient!

In older times (100-plus years back), In-Fill Planes, represented the very BEST that could be got by anyone. They did NOT come cheap.

Scraping is a huge wormhole! Such simple tools, such complex application!

Like I said before, I have only done scraping to add some pop to the projects that were involved, which they did.

Scraping for accuracy, is a whole 'nuther Rabbit Hole!

Not gonna get into any of what is outside my experience. But scraping can be either some pretty cool stuff, or the beginnings of a pretty serious existential Angst, as far as how it fits with what you 'do'.
 
Thanks for the kind words Pete! Being able to get things flat, parallel, square etc to the highest standards of accuracy with simple hand tools in the home shop is a marvellous thing. That is what initially generated my interested in it. Currently working on long follow up piece "Reconditioning a lathe" which will show a gaggle of different styles of lathe being done.

I didn't watch the video (I'm with Sasquatch mostly on videos) but John says the tuber claims its not for function improvement. I'll disagree with the tuber, I could give a crap about tool decoration, its about performance. Of course, 1/10 of a thou is not needed for a wood plane, but you get a tenth (or however good your plate is) when you scrape. Its inherent to the process. You can't dial it back to 1/2 a thou because its a wood plane. The cool part is, grinder or no grinder, you can get anything, including awkward shapes like this very, very flat.

I have scraped a few hand planes and think it makes a difference. They are often not very flat and since we rely on the feel of them on the work to create flatness, It made sense to start with a flat plane and rubbing them on emery paper (which is not lapping btw) can't get them very flat. I thought of grinding them but the set up presents some challenges and the cast iron section is so thin I was concerned about movement from the heat. (even with flood the temperature where a molecule of wheel meets steel is very high)

Here's a Record "technical" I just did for use with a shooting board. imo there is no point in scraping the sides of a bench plane unless you are going use a shooting board....in which case, the side has to be square. I found after sampling a bunch at a used tool dealer the typical Stanley or Record plane is a long way from square (sole to side) whereas the Technical was quite good (not as much to scrape to get dead on). The hole in the side is for a handle.


MWZ_9263-800x532.JPG


MWZ_9296-800x532.JPG

From the article so many years ago

DSC_8509-large.JPG
 
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Wow! Impressive Mcgyver!

I've seen lots of videos on scraping and read some but I think it's a skill I'll leave for those more capable. I must say, not only is it functional but like some watchmaking finishes it's rather decorative!
 
trevj said:
Like I said before, I have only done scraping to add some pop to the projects that were involved, which they did.
Click to expand...
another very fine "pop" finish that is easily done in a hobby shop setting is jeweling ...a bench drill and a couple dremmel tool wire brushes (the ones shaped like a pencil, not the wheel variety) or a couple pencils with grinding compound imbedded into the eraser will do a stand out job.
 
Mcgyver said:
Thanks for the kind words Pete! Being able to get things flat, parallel, square etc to the highest standards of accuracy with simple hand tools in the home shop is a marvellous thing. That is what initially generated my interested in it. Currently working on long follow up piece "Reconditioning a lathe" which will show a gaggle of different styles of lathe being done.

I didn't watch the video (I'm with Sasquatch mostly on videos) but John says the tuber claims its not for function improvement. I'll disagree with the tuber, I could give a crap about tool decoration, its about performance. Of course, 1/10 of a thou is not needed for a wood plane, but you get a tenth (or however good your plate is) when you scrape. Its inherent to the process. You can't dial it back to 1/2 a thou because its a wood plane. The cool part is, grinder or no grinder, you can get anything, including awkward shapes like this very, very flat.

I have scraped a few hand planes and think it makes a difference. They are often not very flat and since we rely on the feel of them on the work to create flatness, It made sense to start with a flat plane and rubbing them on emery paper (which is not lapping btw) can't get them very flat. I thought of grinding them but the set up presents some challenges and the cast iron section is so thin I was concerned about movement from the heat. (even with flood the temperature where a molecule of wheel meets steel is very high)

Here's a Record "technical" I just did for use with a shooting board. imo there is no point in scraping the sides of a bench plane unless you are going use a shooting board....in which case, the side has to be square. I found after sampling a bunch at a used tool dealer the typical Stanley or Record plane is a long way from square (sole to side) whereas the Technical was quite good (not as much to scrape to get dead on). The hole in the side is for a handle.


View attachment 53045


View attachment 53046

From the article so many years ago

View attachment 53047
Click to expand...

The tuber also stated that a plane is not like an angle plate and that out of squareness of the sides is not really an issue, especially not when using a shooting board. I stopped commenting after that nonsense. You can't adjust a blade as easily as you can establish square thru a well scraped tool.

Nice work there, as I'd expect from you.
 
historicalarms said:
another very fine "pop" finish that is easily done in a hobby shop setting is jeweling ...a bench drill and a couple dremmel tool wire brushes (the ones shaped like a pencil, not the wheel variety) or a couple pencils with grinding compound imbedded into the eraser will do a stand out job.
Click to expand...
The gritty erasers that used to be found on the back ends of ballpoint pens work OK. Cratex or similar rubberized abrasive points work well too, as does abrasive loaded ScotchBrite scrubby pad on the end of a larger spud of wood or hard rubber. I have even used Abrasive Roloc mounted disks on a die grinder to pattern larger areas.

Ever get to see the insides of an old pocket watch? The Damasceening in some makes is truly impressive, done using a variation of the same process, in conjunction with geometric gearing, akin to using a spirograph on a Pantograph duplicator...
 
I think maybe 'engine turning' is what is deep my brain fog (that I've heard in aviation at least). But further down the link they use other words like Perlage & Guilloche for much the same thing? Anyhoo, its purdy

en.wikipedia.org

Engine turning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Firearms​

A bolt action rifle with the bolt position open, and jewelling detail on the bolt surface.
Perlage engine turning is also used on various firearm components to prevent corrosion by holding traces of oil and lubricants on the surface, in turn to a polished surface resulting in a smooth operation.

Watchmaking​

Guilloché and perlage are traditional techniques used in have been used in the watch-making.
 
Engine turning (per the wiki article above), Perlage (in watch usage) and Jeweling (as used by the gun folks), are all essentially the same, a series of dots, usually overlapping in a neat and tidy manner. In watches, it seems to me that it gets used a lot, on cheaper watches, to try to increase eye appeal without adding much in the way of costs...

Guilloche, is a form of engraving, often in varied geometric patterns, more a part of the case makers arts, than used on the watch itself. There are both linear and rotary machines (Line Engines, and Ornamental Turning Lathes, respectively) that are used for that.

All I've ever known the stuff I dealt with on a watch was as Damasceening. <shrug> It seems that, by the example I see in the engine turning/perlage/jeweling usage, that there is gonna be some of the same names used for very different processes, in different areas of interest, eh?

http://www.pocketwatchrepair.com/how-to/damaskeening.php
 
Pete, you might be interested in Roger Smith's videos on rose engine turning and guilloche. Roger was the protegee of George Daniels who many regarded as the greatest watchmaker of all time. There is something like 25 or 27 trades/crafts needed to make a watch and GD was one of the few not only could do each but mastered each. Anyway, Roger has some great videos on the subject


There is a young(ish) guy in Vancouver who studied under Roger and has recently been acquiring rose engines ..... so maybe we'll see some Canadian content on the guilloche world stage!
 
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