Product Sandvik Inserts

[Aliva]

For anyone looking for a good deal on Sandvik inserts check AliExpress
VBMT160404 $27.46 + 10.86 Shipping. I ordered 10 tried them very good so I just ordered 10 more. I don't believe these are knock offs, the performance is excellent. The plastic case is black, but you can order a red case, the case also has Sandvik embossed in the plastic. I don't think a Chinese knock off would go to that trouble to emboss the case. Accusize has a similar insert for $8.50 each +taxes + shipping.

Here's the link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33018157570.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.35a3534d5sMvvr&algo_pvid=59f30d93-fcd5-4833-a7d5-8feb2162ddc7&algo_exp_id=59f30d93-fcd5-4833-a7d5-8feb2162ddc7-2&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000020303166716"}&pdp_npi=2@dis!CAD!54.92!27.46!!!10.36!!@210318b916643940971137195eef8c!12000020303166716!sea&curPageLogUid=LfdtJOcVzEKd

Here's

 

[PeterT]

Made in Sweden but distributed in China, Hmmm.... Well you never know.
I've had good luck with Korloy & other Ali/Ebay brands. I just assumed they were selling them under the table but how can one really tell unless they are obvious duds.

 

[gerritv]

Yep, have bought from that store before. Used to list Sandvik as sandvki, others with intentional spelling mutation in the listing. When the tray arrives, it is the name brand you ordered. For me they do behave better than the generic brand inserts.

 

[jcdammeyer]

What tool holder uses these?
Are inserts for Aluminum or steel?

 

[jcdammeyer]

For my lathe I use these and I have extra boring bars from 6mm diameter to 12mm diameter that hold these inserts. Some of them are profiled specifically for aluminum. I don't remember (and it's not marked) what the ones in the red box are for.

This is my face mill and the cutters for it. Again, the shiny ones are for aluminum and the darker ones (no number again) for steel.

I know absolutely nothing about inserts and what best to use. I know I tend to chip them quite easily. Not sure why.

 

[jcdammeyer]

What tool holder uses these?
Are inserts for Aluminum or steel?

And to add to my question:

SVUBR2020K16 Lathe External Turning Tool Holder +10pcs VBMT 160404-PM VBMT331-PM | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for SVUBR2020K16 Lathe External Turning Tool Holder +10pcs VBMT 160404-PM VBMT331-PM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

This looks to be the type of tool holder and the same part number inserts. Is it just larger and meant for deeper cuts?
Is there a chart somewhere to be able to decide what sort of inserts to use and why?

 

[LenVW]

Carbide Inserts are produced with specific geometry and coatings.
See the specifications to ensure the proper application for cemented carbide.
Producers usually supply nomenclature charts or have them on their website.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Here's something that might be helpful.

 

[jcdammeyer]

This is my face mill and the cutters for it. Again, the shiny ones are for aluminum and the darker ones (no number again) for steel.

I looked up the Banggood order and the white box inserts are listed below.

Drillpro R8 FMB22 400R 50mm Face End Mill Cutter with 4pcs Blue Nano APMT1604 Carbide Inserts

Only US$60.99, buy best drillpro r8 fmb22 400r 50mm face end mill cutter with 4pcs blue nano apmt1604 carbide inserts sale online store at wholesale price.

www.banggood.com

 

[jcdammeyer]

Carbide Inserts are produced with specific geometry and coatings.
See the specifications to ensure the proper application for cemented carbide.
Producers usually supply nomenclature charts or have them on their website.

Unfortunately further research on your suggestion has not really helped much.
For example: The second digit represents Normal Clearance. So which should be used for Low Carbon Steel, which for Alloy Steel, which for cast aluminum and which for aluminum say 6061?

So should one buy CC or CF etc.

 

[thestelster]

Unfortunately further research on your suggestion has not really helped much.
For example: The second digit represents Normal Clearance. So which should be used for Low Carbon Steel, which for Alloy Steel, which for cast aluminum and which for aluminum say 6061?

So should one buy CC or CF etc.
View attachment 26866

You might not have a choice. One manufacturer cannot produce all the variations, it would be in the millions! Sandvik for instance, for their positive inserts, have 7° and 11°, and the 11° is for small diameter internal turning.

 

[LenVW]

I found a good website by MITSUBISHI Materials.​

I copied the LINK and there are some great troubleshooting guides.

Carbide Inserts - Mitsubishi Materials Corp
-Nomenclature
-Basic information
-Applications
Most LINKs are functional once you agree to the terms.

Turning Inserts Identification | MITSUBISHI MATERIALS CORPORATION

Also,
You can review the recent discussions in the ‘forum’ . . .

What inserts do you like and why?​

Also,
The site below has insert recommendations for “machining aluminum”.

Inserts For Machining Aluminum

The AL geometry inserts are a reliable and universal solution for Medium to Finish turning applications of aluminum and other non-ferrous materials.

www.widia.com

Len VanWonderen CET
Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
KING KC-15VS Mill w/ DROs
KING M-102 DP
MAXXT R2103 Porta-band
AutoCAD 2021

 

[jcdammeyer]

I found a good website by MITSUBISHI Materials.​

I copied the LINK and there are some great troubleshooting guides.

Carbide Inserts - Mitsubishi Materials Corp
-Nomenclature
-Basic information
-Applications
Most LINKs are functional once you agree to the terms.

Turning Inserts Identification | MITSUBISHI MATERIALS CORPORATION

Also,
You can review the recent discussions in the ‘forum’ . . .

What inserts do you like and why?​

Also,
The site below has insert recommendations for “machining aluminum”.

Inserts For Machining Aluminum

The AL geometry inserts are a reliable and universal solution for Medium to Finish turning applications of aluminum and other non-ferrous materials.

www.widia.com

Len VanWonderen CET
Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
KING KC-15VS Mill w/ DROs
KING M-102 DP
MAXXT R2103 Porta-band
AutoCAD 2021

Yes. That's the site I used to make the PDF I linked.

 

[jcdammeyer]

This one gives more information on cutter specifications.

 

[Susquatch]

Hey @jcdammeyer

I created a thread a while back specifically for links of this type. You are not the only one who has trouble figuring all this stuff out. Join the club.....


Thread 'Links to carbide insert reference documents' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/links-to-carbide-insert-reference-documents.5566/

I believe the Mitsubishi link is there already, but please add as you find appropriate. We all benefit from that.

I'd love to find a one-size-fits-all document that helps one choose the right insert. I've had my best success just sticking to a few choices of carbide inserts and tooling for roughing out different types of jobs just because it's so convenient and then switching to hand ground HSS for the final finish. I know that isn't what most others do, but it works for me.

What strikes me funniest about all this is that I know you are a very detailed complicated technical fellow - you have to be to have done all that old microprocessor s100 stuff. And so am I. But for some reason this insert complexity is beyond me. It seems like we are always hopelessly looking for the perfect grain of sand on the beach. Maybe we are just missing some very simple detail that would turn the light bulb on for us. I don't know, I keep looking.

I chip my carbide pretty easily too. I just swap them out and keep going.

If I could find something somewhere that gave solid advice on the most common, most cost effective, most useful inserts and insert tooling for various materials and job types, I'd be a happy camper. The trouble is that I find it to be a rats nest of infinite variety. And it's not just the inserts, it's the insert tool bars too!

Hope you find something useful in the links above.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Hey @jcdammeyer

I created a thread a while back specifically for links of this type. You are not the only one who has trouble figuring all this stuff out. Join the club.....

Thread 'Links to carbide insert reference documents' https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/links-to-carbide-insert-reference-documents.5566/

I believe the Mitsubishi link is there already, but please add as you find appropriate. We all benefit from that.

I'd love to find a one-size-fits-all document that helps one choose the right insert. I've had my best success just sticking to a few choices of carbide inserts and tooling for roughing out different types of jobs just because it's so convenient and then switching to hand ground HSS for the final finish. I know that isn't what most others do, but it works for me.

Hope you find something useful in the links above.

The problem isn't only knowing what the shape of a carbide insert looks like. The what to use and when and how that is for me more difficult.

For example:
Say I've cast something from 356 al ingots and I want to use the 1.25" diameter sprue for something. So I clean up the edges and chuck it in the 3-jaw, face off and drill for the center on the tailstock. Also turn the rough edges off and bring the 1" protruding down to 1.125" so it's round.

Flip it around, face off and drill with center drill. Then clamp the round part in the 3-jaw and support the other end at the tail stock. Now turn the rest down to 1.000".

Simple right?

What spindle RPM and what feed rate? Normally if I'm roughing I'm doing about 0.010" to 0.025" per rev. If I want a really nice finish I'll drop it to 0.003" per rev.

So three things are needed.
1a. Roughing what tip radius?
1b. Finishing at 0.003" per rev what tip radius.
2. What spindle RPM?
3. What depth of cut.

The third is a big issue. HSS can handle a very small depth of cut. I've read that Carbide needs at least 0.010" to 'bite' into the metal and not just 'rub'. That may not be true of the smaller inserts but where is that information?

And then there's this sort of stuff from machinist toolbox. Maybe fine if one has a HAAS turning center but my Southbend can't even do 6437 RPM nor does it have 3.95HP. And the chart doesn't even come close to suggesting top or back rake.

Now if I use this web site:

Speeds and Feeds

and set FPM to 250 the values change:

Now more reasonable Required HP, RPM and IPR. But I didn't need the chart for this.

It all appears to be guesswork which is what I have trouble with. But I still don't know what top rake and back rake I need or even tip radius for a specific carbide insert.

 

[Former Member]

Years ago I met an old machinist no retired but a close friend. He started with speed & feed rates well beyond what is recommended and achieved fantastic finishes on the most difficult materials. Cooling is the key. This is how I got into ionic synthetic coolants (even on my old Logan lathe).

Now Titans of CNC has been doing the same thing.

These feed charts well are a starting point. Experiment and find what works best for your setup and machine. The following will happen.

1. You will get better results.
2. Most of your feeds will be higher, faster and more aggressive.
3. You won't trust charts any more.

This is why I don't share my set ups anymore. It is geared strictly for mine.

Remember all of these things are dependent on, cutter toughness, sharpness, material shear, HP, Torque, machine rigidity, work hold, vibration control, feed speed ability, cutter hold and application.

Ditch your charts, experiment, go by feel, you be a better machinist for it.

 

[Susquatch]

The problem isn't only knowing what the shape of a carbide insert looks like. The what to use and when and how that is for me more difficult.

If I can figure out how to do it, I'll copy the relevant parts of your post to the indexable insert thread.

I don't accept the premise that the information manufacturers provide is useless. Manufacturers use expertise and science to produce better and better technology. It just takes us mere mortals a little longer to understand and tap into the knowledge and technology they create.

Perhaps that's part of the problem. Just when we think we are catching on, along comes another advancement. To make it all more difficult, each company is in competition with the others and they are not all equal. The choices get a little overwhelming.

Another problem is the market the insert folks are after. It only makes sense that they target the high volume outfits who can benefit from fine tuning their processes. The typical hobbiest makes one-offs, has limited opportunity to experiment, and wants a good result each time. Nor can we afford a tool shelf full of the latest and greatest to play with.

For my part, I just want to know what works most of the time, what is affordable, what is readily available, and the basic rules for using it to get good quality results. Sort of a tried and true approach. That was the basic intent of my thread "what inserts do you like.... ".

What inserts do you like and why?

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here. A good thread on this topic would be appreciated. My eyes start glazing over when I read the insert company info pdfs and let's face it - they are biased to promote and sell their own products. I'd personally like to see something really...

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

I reasoned that most of the members probably had favorites for the low volume hobbiest kind of work we do.

 

[gerritv]

@jcdammeyer I think your first chart is 'wrong' due to the 2056 SFM you fed it? Hence the high RPM is recommended.

 

[gerritv]

For my lathe I use these and I have extra boring bars from 6mm diameter to 12mm diameter that hold these inserts. Some of them are profiled specifically for aluminum. I don't remember (and it's not marked) what the ones in the red box are for.

Actually the red box does say what the parameters are: VP15TF is a Mitsubishi carbide insert designation : http://www.mitsubishicarbide.com/application/files/7214/4643/8968/b034g.pdf. It is for a variety steels, not aluminum.

My approach to finding inserts is to use a specific store: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/911783152, they list by brand (names slightly changed to protect??), then go through the designations for a brand. E.g. if you stick with Sandvik/Sandvki, make a cheat chart of the (small) selection of usage designations then you can find suitable parameters for the job at hand. Each manufacturer of course has their own designations. Generally the inserts offered have a very broad range of applications.

gerrit