Prema Shaper Toolpost from scratch

[Dan Dubeau]

Weather was great, but conditions were too crappy for skiing this weekend, so I did a bunch more cleanup in the shop, and decided to mess it all up again by machining a toolpost for my shaper I've been meaning to get around to for a while.....

This is the look I'm going for here. Sized to take a 5/8"x2" tool shank. It's tough to find info on shaper tooling, but I think most Armstrong styles tool holders for a machine of this size would be around 5/8"x1.5? I added the extra 1/2" and made it 2" just because. I don't think more space is going to hurt anything here, and seeing as how I'll most likely be making all my own tooling for it too, I can make my holders a bit bigger.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/prema-shapers/page3.html


Clean chip pan? It's been a while.....


Won't last long once I tear into this 2" chunk of 4140


Import CCMT doing a pretty good job filling that chip pan again.


Saved some chips for a canister damascus at a later date. Ended up with a full jar of fusilli by the end.


Finished op1


Drilled and tapped the end for 1/2"UNC. Small Monkey (F) wrench for turning and a tail center kept me straight. A spring center has been added to my list....


Then I cut off the stub, (made dinner, ate dinner, realized my phone was dead so didn't get pictures of this part....) faced the end, and then and machined the stub into the spacer ring? (not exactly sure what this piece is called. Collar? Base?)


Then I tried it all out for fitment on the clapper. Very nice snug sliding fit for the post. <0.001"


Just a little bit slightly looser fit for the ring. ~0.001-0.0015"


This is where I'm at tonight. Still need to make the screw, and will try and get the slot cut this week. In all honesty it'll probably be next weekend before I get back to it again. My goal here is to not cheat and take it to work. Even though I so badly want to crank out that screw on the Nakamura CNC, or even the Hardinge

. I want to make it all 100% in my own shop with my own machines as part of my past year long big push to sever my reliance on the work shop, and bring my home shop up to where it needs to be to do the projects I want to do. Slowly but surely I'm getting there.

 

[140mower]

I dug out my J.H. Williams holders for a quick measure. They are 1/2" wide, 1 1/4" deep and roughly 7" long, and they take a 3/8" toolbit. I got the set of three holders with the 1929 South Bend that I bought a few years ago. They are the "T" holders which are use for Tungsten carbide tooling and have a straight hole for the toolbit rather than the ones with the built in rake angle for hss. These are the number 1 size holders and should be about the right size for your shaper.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Thanks for checking. I did end up finding an Armstrong brochure last night after posting which listed the sizes of all the holders. There's still time to shorten up my toolpost 0.5-0.75" to be more inline with holder sizes, but I honestly don't think it'll matter too much, unless anyone can think of a reason to do so? The extra holding capacity might come in handy someday?

 

[140mower]

Thanks for checking. I did end up finding an Armstrong brochure last night after posting which listed the sizes of all the holders. There's still time to shorten up my toolpost 0.5-0.75" to be more inline with holder sizes, but I honestly don't think it'll matter too much, unless anyone can think of a reason to do so? The extra holding capacity might come in handy someday?

I don't think that the extra slot length will be a bother at all, and as you say, it might come in handy one day.
It should also go without saying, but here goes anyway; we want to see the slot put in with a drill press and shaper........

 

[Dan Dubeau]

I don't think that the extra slot length will be a bother at all, and as you say, it might come in handy one day.
It should also go without saying, but here goes anyway; we want to see the slot put in with a drill press and shaper........

Best I can do is a manual mill, with some manual quill shaping to square up the corners...... Although I might leave the rounded ends. Still debating that one......I'm not even going to cheat and use the Tormach for this one.

 

[140mower]

The slots are not squared up on mine, as the bottom of the slot is below the face of the clapper.

Best I can do is a manual mill, with some manual quill shaping to square up the corners..

..... Nope, not buying it, you have all week to come up with some kind of sketchy toolholding set up to do it on the shaper.......
..... and I wonder why I have so few friends.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Lol, There will be shaper projects coming don't worry. Just not this one...Some swage blocks for the blacksmith shop will be among the first. A few more tool holder projects for it first though.

I was thinking about making the bottom of the slot square, and co-planer with the ring. That way a tool would have full support across the bottom at any rotation. Is it nessesary? definately not, but an interesting machining adventure. Then again, I may call an audible on the play, and just bury the slot below the surface like they all do when it comes time to machine it.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

After the kids went to bed, I was sitting reading some old shaper literature, then realized the wife wasn't home from work yet, and there was no reason I shouldn't be out in the garage cutting a slot. So out I went.

Edge found the center, and zeroed out the readout. The vise jaw came to me that way.....


Chain drill out some holes


Plunged out the remainder with a 5/8" HSS endmill, then steped out 0.005" per side to clean up the sides



A little work with the dremel to deburr


And a trial back on the shaper



Didn't realize I had that 1/4" toolbit holder until digging through my stuff. That'll come in handy.

Will try and make the screw this week/weekend, then make some chips. Don't tell anybody, but I kinda of enjoyed making chips manually again. Been a long time since I've really used a manual mill for anything other than drilling or counterboring as a glorified drillpress.

 

[140mower]

Don't tell anybody, but I kinda of enjoyed making chips manually again.

....... Not to worry, your secret is safe here.......



.......hey @Susquatch , did you hear what Dan said last night?......

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Shhhhh!!!!!

 

[historicalarms]

Just an observation here from a dude that has never been close to a shaper (but has always lusted for one until health reasons moved them to the back burner)...Looking at the clearance between the slot you cut & the cutting bits, wouldnt you want that slot a slip fit so the tool cant move within it? With the slot already cut that wide I am thinking maybe a threaded set screw hole might be required in the side of the new mount to pinch the bit against one side or the other.

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Yes, I made this post to take 5/8" wide holders. Shown are just some 1/2" ones I had laying around and mounted for "show". Having never used a shaper either, and very limited time using a lantern post on a lathe, I was curious about the need for a tight side to side fit too. I think it's much more important to have a tighter fitting toolholder on a shaper than a lathe due to the forces involved.

I plan on making a couple toolbit holders to fit this post, and keeping an eye out for some used armstrong ones to fit also. The chances of me using a toolbit directly is probably slim, but I did have the same thought as you to put a grub screw in the side to snug them up. I could always just shim it too. But the grub screw is not abad idea. I also thought about making another, or a few more toolposts with smaller sizes of slot to hold toolbits directly, but will cross that bridge if I get there. I don't think that's very practical, but it's been a fun project, and I've got lots of material..... A couple toolholders of various sizes should have me covered for pretty much any situation I may get into.

 

[140mower]

I almost exclusively use this setup that I made for mine. The "sled" is a tight fit side to side and the tee holds it together. The little groove down the tee drools cutting oil when I add it to the top.
Kinda hard getting pictures, as I have the shaper spun around with the clapper up to the wall so I can re-engineer the drive setup.

 

[Dabbler]

.Looking at the clearance between the slot you cut & the cutting bits, wouldnt you want that slot a slip fit so the tool cant move within it?

That is what I thought, but a lot of guys use tool holders in shapers and American Rocker tool posts that are too narrow, ans seem to get on well. I assume that the holding pressure of the bolt is sufficient to prevent most movement.

@140mower I think your idea is fantastic!

 

[140mower]

That is what I thought, but a lot of guys use tool holders in shapers and American Rocker tool posts that are too narrow, ans seem to get on well. I assume that the holding pressure of the bolt is sufficient to prevent most movement.

@140mower I think your idea is fantastic!

I wish that I were smart enough for that to be my idea....... I am pretty sure that I got it from Shaper Andy on YouTube. He did some pretty interesting stuff in his early days, such as cutting tee slots with the shaper. His videos are a little bit rough around the edges, but it was technique I was after, and I learned quite a bit from his videos...

 

[Dan Dubeau]

Thanks. Something simple like that is easy to make, and a great way to hold toolbits directly.

 

[140mower]

Thanks. Something simple like that is easy to make, and a great way to hold toolbits directly.

Yup, it won't get much more rigid than that. Mine uses 1/2" tool bits, a 4" stick of hss allows for enough stick-out for most situations such as Aloris style tool holder dovetails.......
The tee is just packing, the tee part just holds it in place while changing toolbits.

 

[combustable herbage]

I happen to come across these don't if they are of any interest to you.

Metal Shaper Tool Holders | Other | City of Toronto | Kijiji

Slotting Holder $100 Others with wrench $50/each. Numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 are sold. Please message me with questions.

www.kijiji.ca

 

[140mower]

I happen to come across these don't if they are of any interest to you.

Metal Shaper Tool Holders | Other | City of Toronto | Kijiji

Slotting Holder $100 Others with wrench $50/each. Numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 are sold. Please message me with questions.

www.kijiji.ca

I have sent him a message, it would be nice to have a proper shaper tool or two in the collection. If nothing else to be able to compare them to what I am using currently.
We shall see what comes of it.
Thanks I had planned on using the money for school shoes for the kids, but they need stories to tell their grandchildren too......

 

[Dan Dubeau]

I happen to come across these don't if they are of any interest to you.

Metal Shaper Tool Holders | Other | City of Toronto | Kijiji

Slotting Holder $100 Others with wrench $50/each. Numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 are sold. Please message me with questions.

www.kijiji.ca

Not a bad price. I would actually like to make them for a fun project though. Not under any false pretenses that'll I'll save money, but building stuff like that is enjoyable for me. I'm going to start with an indexing one using a hirth joint and branch out from there.