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Needed: Suggestions for 'starter' milling cutters for lathe milling attachment

V

VicHobbyGuy

Ultra Member
Query from 'down market'.... :)

I have a milling attachment for my 7x14 Chinese mini-lathe but no cutters yet.
ER32 Collet faceplate and collets to hold the tools.
What should I buy to get started?
Keeping in mind the low power (500 watt motor) and lack of rigidity of the whole setup, I expect light cuts and lots of 'em will be the SOP.
Sizes?
End mills - 2 flute, 4 flute, roughing?
Fly cutter or face cutter?

I don't want to spend a huge amount of money, but I learned (eventually) in woodworking that buying good router bits made a huge difference over the BusyBee (and even LeeValley) 'sets'.
So probably not Amazon/BusyBee? KBC? Or a US supplier with reasonable shipping charges?
I'm completely ignorant about milling, so specific suggestions would be really appreciated. (Not the 'buy a Bridgeport' suggestion :) suggestions about cutters...)
Thanks!
 
Price does not determine best product for you application. Understand what you application is does.

What do you plan to mill, Aluminium, Steel, Brass, Copper? This question determines cutter geometery.

Are you able to use cutting fluids?

Does you mill/lathe have play in the in the slide system? Carbide does not like shock loading (ie catch movement caused by play) they break.

I prefer more that 2 flutes in most applications, better finish but you may run into HP issues on some materials and sizes because more teeth are engageds.

HSS cutters are a good starting point and at the beginning expect to destroy a few bits while you learn. I started with HSS tooling and learned how they performed in deferent materials.

Carbide is now my preferred choice, however $$$$. Here for best performance and life it does make a difference on setup, feeds speeds and use of coolant. Carbide is not always the best choice.

KBC Tools offers a decent selection to start, get one of their print catalogs, good reference manual to start.

I'm sure a few other trained machinists will have better and more detailed advise.
 
You want the 2 flute for aluminum (better chip removal) and 4 flute for the harder materials. Since it is a small mill you probably will be limited to about 3/4” diameter cutter?

For facing the fly cutter will work the best as it is a lower load tool on the machine.

Lots of folks on here with smaller mills will have intel!
 
VicHobbyGuy said:
milling attachment for my 7x14 Chinese mini-lathe
Click to expand...
On Youtube, Steve Jordan has done a couple of videos about milling with a Chinese mini lathe. In the following, he uses a 10mm carbide bit to mill a little flat on a piece of stainless steel:


I would advise to NOT buy a bunch of bits before you prove to yourself that the milling attachment is OK to use. What is the first thing you'd like to accomplish with it? From that, somebody could give you a more specific recommendation on a cutter.

Craig
 
Thanks for all that input; I appreciate it.

I know that it's difficult to give specific recommendations since I can't point to a particular part, in a specific material, that I'm trying to make.
I've only had the lathe a few months, and the few things I've made have been lathe parts (new cross slide leadscrew, etc), plus a few other things around the shop like bushings which have been needed for years, new drive wheel for Elna sewing machine, etc... It's been a case of discovering things I can do now that I have the lathe. I expect it will be the same when I get "a setup" for milling - jobs will turn up.
It would be nice to be able to mill steel (CRS, 12L14, 'mystery steel' not stainless). Brass and bronze, aluminum are in my very small stash of stock.

@Degen Coolant- If you mean a coolant pump cooling system, no. Strictly various 'magic fluids' with an acid brush and the spray can of WD40 for now. Rigidity - I'm working on the lathe to get it more rigid, but even if I get it to 'excellent' by mini-lathe standards it will not be rigid. The milling attachment is quite tall, there's a big lever at work on the narrow cross-slide. About price/quality - Reading reviews of cheaper end mills at amazon, there were comments like "dulled immediately in steel, so use only for plastic or aluminum" I don't need that- memories of "high speed steel' router bits from Sears 50 years ago that lasted a few inches on plywood glue lines come to mind. KBC seems to have solid carbide end mills that are pretty cheap in sizes under 1/2", those caught my eye. I do know from turning that HSS tools are sharper and handle light cuts better than most of the carbide insert tools. BUT, I can sharpen HSS lathe tools - there's no way I can sharpen a 4-flute end mill properly, so if it gets dull it is junk.
@Brent H Thanks for those tips on the 2,4 flute and fly cutter. I've been grinding my HSS lathe tools, so a fly cutter sounds like a good option and something I can keep sharp (and vary geometry if needed) myself.
@trlvn I've watched a LOT of Steve Jordan videos. With his endless stream of free Banggood items (all of which are "outstanding" - they're not, I learned through experience) his tooling needs seem to be taken care of! But yes, he's an excellent resource for mini-lathe ideas. I bought the milling attachment (from India) which is a knockoff of the swivel Myford attachment after watching his video on it. Aboiut the bunch of bits - I agree. I just want a few so I can start checking out the potential (or lack of potential) of the milling attachment. I can't do any tests, let alone projects without a few cutters. I'm thinking something like 1/4,3/8,1/2 or similar metric sizes (I have metric and inch ER32 collets) and perhaps a fly cutter to start.
 
Personally I would skip hss end mills if you intend to cut steel at all and just buy an assortment from Ali, the small carbide end mills are dirt cheap from there, that'll get you started at least, and let you know how your 7" like milling
 
If you want to start out cheap, out drill bits can be turned into 2 flute end mills, just be aware they only cut on the end. This was my first end mill bit years ago, used on lathe and drill press. Free hand ground, yes it holds tolerance as it basically works as a small fly cutter.

So options are plentiful.

BTW it was used both on steel and aluminium.

As to Carbide, good quality (expect to pay more) are way sharper than HSS, so much more so they are a cut risk when handling.

One other note, don't waste money on cheap carbide, it is exactly that, good HSS cuts steel no problem, just watch feeds, speeds and lubrication.

63C73969-1DEB-41F6-AA40-D7B22E401DDC.jpeg
 
phaxtris said:
just buy an assortment from Ali, the small carbide end mills are dirt cheap from there, that'll get you started at least, and let you know how your 7" like milling
Click to expand...
I have a few cutters which are supposed to arrive eventually from Banggood/AliExpress, but I'm getting impatient! :) I'm sure the key to making them show up is buying something else...that usually works.
 
VicHobbyGuy said:
I have a few cutters which are supposed to arrive eventually from Banggood/AliExpress, but I'm getting impatient! :) I'm sure the key to making them show up is buying something else...that usually works.
Click to expand...

Ha you would think so, I just had an order show up after 26 days.....they combined a bunch of stuff, took longer...I had singular items worth 10$ show up before that order came....and I ordered after!

Who knows with Ali/banggood, I just know it will eventually show up, and then it's like Christmas....so long you forgot what it was
 
I’m with Degen. My choice would be 1/4”, 3/8”, 1/2” in HSS. I wouldn’t buy metric, but that could because I’m old and think in imperial. Two and four flute. Two flute lets you plunge, but four flute has always given me better results in terms of finish and bit longevity. I suggest cheap - you’re going to break and dull them as you get used to the capabilities of your machine, better to break a $3 1/4” HSS bit than a $20 carbide.
 
I'm a big fan of 2 Flute HSS. They tend to be less expensive and are relatively easy to re-sharpen with a simple jig.

I've extended the life span of my endmills three+ fold using this jig.

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Easy - End Mill Sharpening Jig Project

Not my invention, but it works well on 2 flt and 4 flt end mills 1/4" and larger and is a pretty easy project to build. http://homews.co.uk/page121.html
canadianhobbymetalworkers.com canadianhobbymetalworkers.com
 
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Cheap carbide last and lasts and lasts. Certainly more then cheap HSS or even expensive HSS. Main issue is limit with the type of steel you can cut with it. Also its not very "abuse proof".

A not too abused 12mm carbide EM can cut, in HS application (so not ideal, no lob, some rubbing too slow speed etc). around 1/2 a bucket of shavings easily. A whole bucket with more care. I.e. bucket is like what you have for paper shredder. I am sure in CNC application with cooling, proper speeds and feeds you can at least double or even triple that.

That is a lot of steel cut. Or put it the other way, one can do 10 AXA tool holders (both sides) in regular soft steel with a single 12mm carbide EM. All except drilling part and cutting the 60 degree part - as there is no way for EM to get there.
 
whydontu said:
better to break a $3 1/4” HSS bit than a $20 carbide.
Click to expand...
Thanks. That makes sense. Any suggestions about where I can find a $3 HSS 1/4" end mill? At KBC they are $11 and up, plus shipping. Some of the solid carbide ones are cheaper than the similar HSS version, so it's quite confusing (for me).
 
VicHobbyGuy said:
Thanks. That makes sense. Any suggestions about where I can find a $3 HSS 1/4" end mill? At KBC they are $11 and up, plus shipping. Some of the solid carbide ones are cheaper than the similar HSS version, so it's quite confusing (for me).
Click to expand...

I know where you can find 4$ 6mm carbide end mills..... (1/4 = 6.4)
 
VicHobbyGuy said:
Thanks. That makes sense. Any suggestions about where I can find a $3 HSS 1/4" end mill? At KBC they are $11 and up, plus shipping. Some of the solid carbide ones are cheaper than the similar HSS version, so it's quite confusing (for me).
Click to expand...
I stand corrected, $3 doesn’t seem to be the going rate. I haven’t bought any milling cutters in probably ten years. Most of my work is in aluminum, cutters last forever…
 
VicHobbyGuy said:
AliExpress? Also what about 'Roughing' end mills? Would those be useful in a low-horsepower, semi-rigid setup?
Click to expand...

you bet, its worth the wait to spend like 1/4 of what you would spend locally for a rebranded chineese cutter

from what i understand roughing endmills actually take more hp and rigidity, but maybe that's to take full advantage of the roughing action, im not sure
 
whydontu said:
I stand corrected, $3 doesn’t seem to be the going rate. I haven’t bought any milling cutters in probably ten years. Most of my work is in aluminum, cutters last forever…
Click to expand...
NO problem - I thought I was missing some 'bargain outlet'! :) I can get cutters almost that cheaply from China, as @phaxtris and @Tom Kitta mentioned.
phaxtris said:
you bet, its worth the wait to spend like 1/4 of what you would spend locally for a rebranded chineese cutter
Click to expand...
As we were joking earlier, perhaps even this discussion will make my long-lost Banggood order show up! :)
 
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