Lathe number two, where by the author bites off more than he can chew

[mikoyan31]

I've been quiet for the last while. Life has a bad habit of getting in the way. With the youngest launched into first year university, the wife recovering from a mental health episode, and my dominant hand recovered enough from spring surgery that I can use it, this middle aged man's thoughts turn to the shop.

A couple weeks ago, I was perusing Kijiji, as I am wont to do. I found an ad, minimal bad pictures, no real details for what looks to be a bench lathe. A couple days of discussion with the clueless owner indicated that it had been his father's who had passed away last year and he was cleaning out the garage. So I take a chance, load the shop crane, block and tackle, ramps and straps on the truck and strike out across the Renous highway. The end result was me picking up a South Bend 9" horizontal drive lathe with a 4 1/2 foot bed and the seriously heavy home made stand. I did pay more for the lathe than I did the fuel in the truck to get there and back, but not by much I don't think. 20 year old Ford 3/4 ton is thirsty!

I did not hear or see the lathe run, one look at the rotted power cord and there was NO way I wanted anything to do with powering it up. The whole thing is absolutely caked in some kind of black crap that turns you the same colour if you get too close to it. Loading this was an adventure. Anyway, got it home a couple weeks ago and it's where it landed.

So here's what I observed.

- There is wear on the ways but I've seen a lot worse.
- The quick change gearbox shifts with difficulty through all the settings but they all appear to work.
- The original clamp for the tail stock is gone and someone kludged together one that works by welding a bolt to a piece of plate.
- The back gear shaft was taken off at one point and put back together wrong, i.e. the cams are out of phase so it's stuck
- Looks like someone HAMMERED on the shaft to get it to go together (square peg/round hole comes to mind)
- Still with the back gear, someone tried to drive a tapered pin through from the small side.
- The piece de resistance here, since the back gears are cocked off crooked, someone managed to smash at least six teeth from the small end gear and possibly at the same time broke one of the bull gear teeth.

The plan is to clean the crap off it in pieces until I can get the machine reassembled in my basement. Metalworking in an unheated garage is no fun from about December to April.

So tonight was step one. No real before photos since I was covered in diesel trying to scrub the crap off the counter shaft assembly. Here are some after pics.

Doesn't look so bad here.

I really am glad I didn't meet the previous operator.

I forgot to clean the shaft collar so that gives you some idea of how much crap is caked on.

That doesn't look right.

Nor does this on he other side...

I understand re-sleaving it, but for the material cost and effort, make it go all the way through!

Can't say anything about this, my skill is probably worse. I'll go at this with a file.

Well, that's not right.....

Know why they resleaved it. That's +0.025" tolerance!

Other side looks closer to 7/8"

Got to take up the slack somehow.

That's not 7/8ths!

Doesn't matter how big your bench is.....

When the time comes, I don't think I'm going to bother farting around with this fire starter/electrocution device.

110/220. That wasn't yesterday.

Yeah, no.

Yetch!

And finally, this really rots my socks. How much does a piece of key stock cost?

So this ought to be an interesting project. First off I think I'll bore those clapped out journals out and make some proper oil bronze inserts. I know there's supposed to be a wick there but a nice close fitting oil bronze bushing with a nice smooth shaft will go a long way to improving things. And I plan on drilling out the oil hole into the bushing.

God alone knows what other interesting things I'll find as I tear into it. Best case I have a usable lathe at the end of the day and I learn a lot. Worst case, I clean up and sell usable bits and pieces to recoup cost, scrap the rest and I've still learned a lot. I'll be working on this as time, ambition and other projects and chores allow so updates will be catch as catch can.

Please feel free to join in with a heartfelt round of "What in the hell were they THINKING?" I'm sure that among other things will be said quite often.

 

[jcdammeyer]

Nice project.

 

[DavidR8]

Nice find. I like seeing these old machines resurrected.

 

[Bandit]

I sure hope the picture of the pulleys just before the motor pictures is distorted a bit, otherwise, needing a large pulley too, LOL. Hey, you have a taper attachment on it! What are the spindle and those bearings like?
This could be one step into an interesting journey. Good luck and I will look for more instalments.

 

[Dabbler]

Looks like a great way to spend the winter! Nice find!

 

[trevj]

I sure hope the picture of the pulleys just before the motor pictures is distorted a bit, otherwise, needing a large pulley too, LOL. Hey, you have a taper attachment on it! What are the spindle and those bearings like?
This could be one step into an interesting journey. Good luck and I will look for more instalments.

Taper attachment is worth a fair bit of coin, as a stand alone part! So I'd bet between Price and gas you are still well under the value of it. Gear set is worth some coin too! So, at worst, it becomes parts for someone else's lathes, still better than scrap metal! At best, it becomes an honest accomplishment to be proud of!

I wouldn't diss on that motor too much. Likely dirtier outside than in, and likely dirty in too, but they are smooth running motors, that have a lot more copper in them than modern stuff (mass! mass is good!), so it may be worth a tear down and clean up.

And as long as you have, or have access to, another lathe, most of those bushings and shafts are pretty easy to replace.

 

[Bandit]

Can anyone tell me why there are key grooves cut in the belt reduction drive frame for the shaft? They also appear to be in line with the oiler holes.
As "trevj" says don't give up on the motor yet, if the shaft is not bent, it could be turned to smaller size if scabbed up. Those older motors were ment to go many years with just a drop of oil and a wipe off now and then. I have seen worse wiring. Could be a good motor, plus pick your voltage flavour!
As to touching up the brazing repair, nothing wrong with a file, a quote from many years ago "a file and a hack saw in good hands are a poor mans milling machine", I would maybe throw in a hammer and good chisel for real big roughing work.

 

[mikoyan31]

Can anyone tell me why there are key grooves cut in the belt reduction drive frame for the shaft? They also appear to be in line with the oiler holes.

To the best of my knowledge, aka read on the internet, that was where a wick would live. It would soak up oil and distribute it on the shaft. A much better set up then the rain storm of oil my old Fay and Scott flings around the shop. If it isn't dripping I had better add some.

There are other places that use wicks on this machine. Should be interesting to see their state.

 

[Mcgyver]

Nice find. I like seeing these old machines resurrected.

Me too. I've done my penance...... now I like watching others do it lol. (I lie....still have two more that aren't finished, sigh)

Please feel free to join in with a heartfelt round of "What in the hell were they THINKING?"

Likely a few of these, amplified by it being a voluntary self inflicted thing that was done for fun!

Nice photos, good luck with it and keep the reports coming

 

[Janger]

Looks like there is gold underneath all the dirt. Way to go on the restoration.

 

[mikoyan31]

Put an hour or so into the lathe last night. Mainly I want to get it stripped down enough so I can get the bed into the basement without rupturing myself.

Got the head stock off.

As repairs go I've seen (and done) worse.

You can kind of see here how the back gears are all cock-eyed.

And the tooth gnashing (smashing?) damage.

Change tumbler came out remarkably easy.

And this is where the head stock lived for probably the last 70 years.

It was at this point that I decided that discretion was the better part of valor, let the penetrating oil work and retired to the easy chair to watch YouTube videos about how to disassemble the head stock. Also, I have the a stuck chuck of all the luck, so I had better buck up. Seriously I think I might just clean as much as I can in situ and when I get things back together and bolted down have a go at removing the chuck and spindle.

Not a lot of progress but some.

 

[Susquatch]

Seriously I think I might just clean as much as I can in situ and when I get things back together and bolted down have a go at removing the chuck and spindle.

Did you try removing the chuck before removing the head? It might have been easier that way. Or maybe that's how the back gear teeth got stripped.

I've seen more than a few old lathes like that running without the back gear because teeth were missing. What is your plan to deal with that?

 

[mikoyan31]

Did you try removing the chuck before removing the head? It might have been easier that way. Or maybe that's how the back gear teeth got stripped.

I've seen more than a few old lathes like that running without the back gear because teeth were missing. What is your plan to deal with that?

I should have tried, but I figured since the lathe is sitting loose on the legs of my engine hoist as I disassemble it, if it was stuck I couldn't brace against anything. If it wasn't it should come off anyway. Hind sight being 20/20 and me being rather near sighted, I didn't even bother trying.

As for the back gears, first I want to get them off. After that, see how much damage has been done ot the cams and get that un-stuck. Long term? Depends on what else I find. Might power it with a 3/4HP 3-phase on a VFD for speed control, or I might find an ebay replacement for it and the bull gear. Or I might try my hand at gear repair with brazing rod, files and a weekend worth of beer considering I don't yet have a milling machine. Or it may become something else on my scrapped spare parts pile if it all goes pear shaped.

 

[140mower]

I should have tried, but I figured since the lathe is sitting loose on the legs of my engine hoist as I disassemble it, if it was stuck I couldn't brace against anything. If it wasn't it should come off anyway. Hind sight being 20/20 and me being rather near sighted, I didn't even bother trying.

As for the back gears, first I want to get them off. After that, see how much damage has been done ot the cams and get that un-stuck. Long term? Depends on what else I find. Might power it with a 3/4HP 3-phase on a VFD for speed control, or I might find an ebay replacement for it and the bull gear. Or I might try my hand at gear repair with brazing rod, files and a weekend worth of beer considering I don't yet have a milling machine. Or it may become something else on my scrapped spare parts pile if it all goes pear shaped.

If things go south, I have a back gear or two kicking around... probably have a bull gear or two as well....

 

[mikoyan31]

Back out to the shop for a couple hours tonight. Come hell or high water I was going to get those back gears off.

Some primitive was pounding on this. Oi I hate people who abuse tools.

Tried to dress it down with a file but there really wasn't room and it was seized up solid, not moving. No pictures because once I started I just kept going. Finally got the handle off with repeated use of a cold chisel and hammer as a wedge. I took it careful since I didn't want to break the casting.

Unfortunately it cracked at the thin spot. It looks old to me, my guess it was done with the original ham fisted "repair."

Taper pin broke off. Wasn't my doing as the handle was clocked away from it.

Can't drive this out it's too mushroomed.

Dress down the other end and out the long way.

Well it's apart as much as it's going to be for now.

Into the pan of diesel along with the brush and it's somewhat clean now.

Flooded the thrust bearing with fresh spindle oil and refilled the main bearing reservoirs. Spins nice, no discernible slop in any direction. Enough for tonight anyway.

 

[YotaBota]

Quite the adventure you're on, be a nice machine restored/repaired. @Brent H might be able to help with the gear repair if you need help.

I wonder if the guy you got it from is related to the guy @David_R8 got his lathe from.