Jarno taper tooling - am I looking for unicorn poop?

[mikoyan31]

Good day all.

After some mistaken purchasing of tooling and ASS-u-ME-ing that my very old Fay and Scott lathe used a Mores taper in the tail stock I finally broke down and did some actual semi-careful measuring of a rather battered dead centre that fits in the tail stock which came in my box o' junk with the lathe. Based on this I'm pretty sure my lathe uses a number 6 Jarno taper. So I start looking for some equipment, like a drill chuck holder, centres, and I seem to be striking out.

Now I know I can use the lathe to make my tooling but I'm at the point of needing the machine to make the machine, i.e centre drill, work support, etc. Also, my skills are quite rusty so I'm not sure about making something as precise as a machine taper for my first series of projects. So here are my questions:

- Is a Jarno taper hopelessly obsolete? My usual (local) sources have never heard of it.
- Any ideas beyond E-Pay where I might find tooling? To start I would like a non-beat to crap centre, dead or live as well as a drill chuck holder.
- Would I be better off if one of you guys took this thing off my hands "to dispose of" and I just get consistently beat at video games with the kids?

Thanks all.

 

[Brent H]

@mikoyan31 : the #6 Jarno has a big end of 0.75" and a small end of 0.60" at the small end over 3". This would make it possible to ream out and convert to a #3 Morse Taper (0.9380 big end and 0.7780" small end over 3.19"). That would open up your world of tailstock tooling. Just a suggestion??

 

[whydontu]

Dimensions of Standard Tapers

This page give the dimensions of Morse, Jacobs, Brown & Sharpe, and Jarno tapers.

littlemachineshop.com

 

[trlvn]

Sorry, I don't have any good leads on Jarno tooling.

Have you posted a picture of your Fay & Scott? I was curious and looked up the maker on VintageMachinery. They list quite a few "Pattern Makers" lathes but only a single metal lathe. A pattern makers lathe looks like:

AIUI, a pattern makers lathe looks like a metal lathe but has no threading capability, power feed or power cross feed. They are meant for making precise patterns out of wood for use in casting metal parts.

Is yours really a metal lathe?

Craig

 

[historicalarms]

One of the first jobs I did with my lathe was to cut a Morse taper...just to see if i could do it...I was amazed at how good & easy it turned out to be.
first I mounted a known specimen of commercial manufacture between centers in the machine, next I run the top slide up against the taper body and locked it when perfectly parallel to the side. Now chuck up a piece of bar in the 3-jaw and just use the top slide to make cuts to the bar until you have the minor dia. correct...yhe major dia should be correct at the same time, at least mine was. It is difficult to cut a perfect face to the bar by hand feed but a very good file will true up any deficiency's.

 

[mikoyan31]

I'm actually embarrassed to post pics, because of the state of the lathe and the state of the shop. Both are in "as found with some repairs and cleaning" condition.

I've thought about opening it up to an MT3 which is the size closest and there is enough meat there to do it. Honestly at this point I'm just spit balling ideas.

 

[mikoyan31]

Well here is a video I took a few weeks back when I got it turning for the first time. Please excuse the mess. And yes it have power feed and a power feed cross slide and it will rip a finger or more off without a problem.

 

[Susquatch]

Well here is a video I took a few weeks back when I got it turning for the first time. Please excuse the mess. And yes it have power feed and a power feed cross slide and it will rip a finger or more off without a problem.

Hey, no worries. I used a much older lathe to do some amazing work for some 20 odd years. I bought a better lathe when I retired. I still have my old lathe but I only rarely use it.

I converted mine from that big overhead belt system to an electric motor and pulley hanging off the back of the lathe. No regrets. That overhead belt system was too big, too cumbersome, and too dangerous.

 

[Tom O]

Good day all.

After some mistaken purchasing of tooling and ASS-u-ME-ing that my very old Fay and Scott lathe used a Mores taper in the tail stock I finally broke down and did some actual semi-careful measuring of a rather battered dead centre that fits in the tail stock which came in my box o' junk with the lathe. Based on this I'm pretty sure my lathe uses a number 6 Jarno taper. So I start looking for some equipment, like a drill chuck holder, centres, and I seem to be striking out.

Now I know I can use the lathe to make my tooling but I'm at the point of needing the machine to make the machine, i.e centre drill, work support, etc. Also, my skills are quite rusty so I'm not sure about making something as precise as a machine taper for my first series of projects. So here are my questions:

- Is a Jarno taper hopelessly obsolete? My usual (local) sources have never heard of it.
- Any ideas beyond E-Pay where I might find tooling? To start I would like a non-beat to crap centre, dead or live as well as a drill chuck holder.
- Would I be better off if one of you guys took this thing off my hands "to dispose of" and I just get consistently beat at video games with the kids?

Thanks all.

This is my first search on them

Jarno Taper Centers - Full Center from Rock River Tool Type 2597 - Rock River Tool

Rock River Tool's Jarno Taper Centers, Type 2597 Special Jarno Taper Centers in carbide tipped and solid carbide are available. Contact Rock River Tool.

www.rockrivertool.com

 

[mikoyan31]

This is my first search on them

Jarno Taper Centers - Full Center from Rock River Tool Type 2597 - Rock River Tool

Rock River Tool's Jarno Taper Centers, Type 2597 Special Jarno Taper Centers in carbide tipped and solid carbide are available. Contact Rock River Tool.

www.rockrivertool.com

I didn't find these guys, but I did find dead centres from other places 'state side that were either out of stock or "please contact." Generally when I see that they want to do a production run of 1000+ and have me buy them all. Somewhat overkill for a hobiest on a budget. Actually that could sum up my experiences so far with anything metal working. "What do you mean you don't want to buy 500 or more units?"

 

[Susquatch]

Good day all.

After some mistaken purchasing of tooling and ASS-u-ME-ing that my very old Fay and Scott lathe used a Mores taper in the tail stock I finally broke down and did some actual semi-careful measuring of a rather battered dead centre that fits in the tail stock which came in my box o' junk with the lathe. Based on this I'm pretty sure my lathe uses a number 6 Jarno taper. So I start looking for some equipment, like a drill chuck holder, centres, and I seem to be striking out.

Now I know I can use the lathe to make my tooling but I'm at the point of needing the machine to make the machine, i.e centre drill, work support, etc. Also, my skills are quite rusty so I'm not sure about making something as precise as a machine taper for my first series of projects. So here are my questions:

- Is a Jarno taper hopelessly obsolete? My usual (local) sources have never heard of it.
- Any ideas beyond E-Pay where I might find tooling? To start I would like a non-beat to crap centre, dead or live as well as a drill chuck holder.
- Would I be better off if one of you guys took this thing off my hands "to dispose of" and I just get consistently beat at video games with the kids?

Thanks all.

If you cannot ream the tailstock quill yourself, I'd be taking it to someone who can. Just ream it out to MT3 and you will be be pretty much standard with the rest of the world.

I would not invest one penny more on Jarno anything.

Not only that, but when it comes time to sell, it will be easier to sell an MT3 tailstock than a Jarno.

 

[kevin.decelles]

I picked up some centers (Jarno 12) from ebay about 4 years ago. I have an old lathe as well that I've never identified the taper on. Based on my measurements, it was either MT 4.5 (obscure), Jarno 12 etc. Rather than science it to death, I just went bought some of these odd tapers to try a center. My assessment was that none of them fit right due to 100+ years of 'use'/'abuse' and much galling. I gave up on running a center in the spindle and now use it primarily for drilling/reaming etc.

The tailstock on mine was already reamed MT3

 

[Susquatch]

Hey @mikoyan31 ,if you find any unicorn poop, please let me know. My grand-daughter loves unicorns. She says that even their poop is magic.....

 

[Chicken lights]

Hey @mikoyan31 ,if you find any unicorn poop, please let me know. My grand-daughter loves unicorns. She says that even their poop is magic.....

There’s also 18+ unicorn poop but I’ll let you puzzle on that one.....

 

[Susquatch]

View attachment 24698

There’s also 18+ unicorn poop but I’ll let you puzzle on that one.....

Thanks @Chicken lights !

Ya, no puzzling needed. She is 4 years old. Not doing any 18+ buys for her........

I did ask the bride is she wanted any and she said. "Not interested, I have enough 18+ HorseSh** to deal with around this place without adding any more magic to the mix."

 

[Susquatch]

Just in case anyone else is reading this and has kids or grandkids or partners who are into unicorns, you can also get unicorn farts for the bathtub....

 

[6.5 Fan]

I would also ream the tailstock to MT3, wonder what the headstock has for a taper.

 

[mikoyan31]

A combination of factors, the general consensus here as well as the fact that I finally managed to disassemble the tail stock last night, I'm going to ream the ram. Man that sounds like a euphemism... Now the only question is, do I order up a MT3 reamer or take it to my local machine shop and get them to do it.

Now for the head stock, it's either MT4.5 or a Jarno 12 based on my measurements. Guess I won't be using off the shelf collets any time soon unless I make an adapter. Project 739 on my list of things to do to improve my shop.

As for the unicorn poop, my buddy has a 7 year old who loves my chickens and is failiar with cleaning out manure when they vist. She also really loves unicorns. I took a bag of those multicoloured mini-marshmallows, put them in an empty ice cream pail, and when she was over I told her I had just cleaned out the unicorn pen out back and gave that to her. Eyes as big as saucers.

 

[Susquatch]

As for the unicorn poop, my buddy has a 7 year old who loves my chickens and is failiar with cleaning out manure when they vist. She also really loves unicorns. I took a bag of those multicoloured mini-marshmallows, put them in an empty ice cream pail, and when she was over I told her I had just cleaned out the unicorn pen out back and gave that to her. Eyes as big as saucers.

You are the man! I'll do it too!

She has huge eyes already! Can't wait to see the look on her face!

Thank you!

 

[Susquatch]

Now for the head stock, it's either MT4.5 or a Jarno 12 based on my measurements. Guess I won't be using off the shelf collets any time soon unless I make an adapter. Project 739 on my list of things to do to improve my shop.

I wouldn't worry too much about the spindle taper. The chuck mounting system is much more important.

In the 15 years that I have owned my newer lathe I have never used the MT5 spindle taper.

If you want a collet chuck, find a 5C collet chuck to fit your chuck mounting system or make a back plate. You will be happy as a unicorn with that!