Now days everyone HAS TO retire off of Gramp's tools.
Here is an idea to help people put a monetary value on machine tools.
- Thread starter TorontoBuilder
- Start date
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
It's designed to appeal to those who are addicted to sports betting... it mimics the "I'm smarter than everyone else" aspects of sports book games
"Everyone expects to retire off of gramps tools" does seem apropos of some. I'd say it is 50/50 right now. Certainly over the last few years people think covid has a huge influence on availability and inflation.
I know the woman's brother kept saying "covid made prices skyrocket" but that is not the case of the lathe market here. Sadly I forgot to print off several sales sheets I had of recent Colchester sales to give the woman just as I for I forgot to give the woman the sales sheet for the Modern 1440. For what we offered we would likely have been better off buying a new modern lathe. But we don't need a new lathe if a used will suffice, and we were trying to do our part. We made it clear though that we would not be increasing our price if she wanted to get several potential buyers into a bidding war.
At this point I've already decided that a new machine is the better option, and I just need to convince my brother to let me put a couple grand into the purchase to make that happen. Newmarket would be a far easier pick up.
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TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
We can't change an offer once made, but we made it clear, we're not waiting around for her to try to find a better offer. There is one more Colchester coming up at auction. It's not what we want, but it is there.
And I may have a line on another one if the message I got in reply to my kijiji ad is true.
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Maybe you don't want to, but sure you can. An offer has a irrevocable time/date. Might be unstated, by she can't expect to come back to you ten years from now and say yes. Not telling you what to do, but for me, if I'm standing there after my interest as a buyer was solicited and I drove all that way there and made an bona fide offer, the irrevocable time is the end of that meeting unless state otherwise. In doing so, you wouldn't have been the unethical one.
That's my view (with an lifetime of commercial, professional, ethical, negotiation). But we all beat to our own drummers.
That's my view (with an lifetime of commercial, professional, ethical, negotiation). But we all beat to our own drummers.
trlvn
Ultra Member
I'm not saying I disagree but I'm interested in your reasoning. Modern Tool is importing lathes from China. When I got my Craftex this year, I disassembled, cleaned and lubricated most of the working parts of the lathe. There were small chips and grit in a lot of spots and one large chip in the 3-jaw that made it almost impossible to operate. I think I'm going to have to re-make the locking mechanism for the tailstock. The machine is OK but certainly not perfect out of the crate. In the longer term, lots of people seem to have problems with the motor control electronics.
If I had been able to find a similar-sized older machine from a respected British maker--and pay less--it would have been a tough decision. It would depend on the overall wear on the old machine and whether there were any obvious faults.
In effect, both old and new machines need to be checked and cleaned...albeit for different issues.
What is making you lean toward the new machine?
Craig
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
What makes me lean towards new is the time consuming search, utterly despicable registration fees, USD auctions, huge buyer's premiums, hours of driving and gas for inspection after inspection... and sellers with nearly 40 year old machines who want almost new prices. New equipment comes with warranty, and one thing I know if how to inspect equipment for issues covered by warrantees and get them dealt with.
Then there is a lot to be said for getting a taper attachment with your lathe, and a follow rest and chucks that are not all chewed up, rusty and battered, and a variable speed option without having to modify a lathe yourself, and the option to get a 2" bore.
I also have an immediate need for a lathe, and ascribe to the definition of insanity usually attributed to Einstein
In regard to this specific lathe I believe two issues are at play that mean we never had a chance to buy it in the first place. I very much suspect after not hearing back from the seller today, and her brother's oft repeated comments that covid has caused prices to skyrocket, that there is no fair price we could have offered that the woman would accept after her brother's input. Let me tell you we made a generous offer based on recent comparable sales
In hindsight I more suspect though, based on some other clues, that the woman was only trying to ascertain a valuation in order to arrive at a price to be paid by another interested party (a tool and die maker friend of her husband, or the neighbour). We were told a tool and die maker had already seen the lathe and was said to have loved it. When the woman said she had to "check" before she would accept our offer I an certain she meant she had to give the other person the opportunity to pay the price we offered.
OH and please recall, this lathe is not our preferred lathe. We wanted a 10 to 15 year newer lathe with the newer model design, and those lathes are much harder to find.
It looks like this deal may be going sideways but I'd just like to observe that your approach to establishing the going rate objectively by market transactions/data is very good - especially when you are dealing with the family having to dispose of their loved one's equipment and attempting to get the best value for it (and I mean fair to all). Market value in writing, based on actual sales is the least ambiguous and least adversarial for lack of better word, way to establish a credible basis for the offer. It counters the arbitrary opinions like Covid's impact etc., providing facts and is valuable especially when the seller doesn't have a good idea of the value. Cuts out some he said - they said haggling over opinions.
I know this is effective - and fair. When I was shopping for my mill I discussed price with the family and one (deciding) member was adamant that the machine was worth their asking price based on their "research". I politely thanked them for their time and asked if I could leave my research with them and then left contented that I had walked away from a machine that I would not buy at an unrealistic price. I reconciled that it was still good experience to make the trip.
To my pleasure, the next day I got a call to come and get my machine - at my price. I think that giving the family time to go over my market info in private was also important in saving face.
Now, another related thought: I'm not near the (respectfully....) geezer stage or planning on kicking off any time soon but I have had the thought that I should prepare a divestiture plan in case my other half is faced with selling off my tools at some point. I'm thinking at least a portfolio of equipment with particular attention paid to the big ticket items with photos, description/features and market info, basically what's needed to write a proper advertisement and where to advertise. A place like this group is a good place to start.
Anybody have an exit strategy?@TorontoBuilder , hope your deal works out for the best in the end, whatever that turns into.
D
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What I've been trying to do, not very successfully, is keeping the price sticker on what I have or writing the price I paid for something.
Say I buy a micrometer for $100. Ten years later that brand of micrometer goes for $200. What's a fair price for the disposal of my asset? Especially if I used it once per month for 10 years. ie. not a scratch on it.
The low ballers will come to an estate sale and claim it's old and worth 10% of what I paid trying to score it for $10. They know full well the same device new is $200 plus shipping and taxes.
Say I buy a micrometer for $100. Ten years later that brand of micrometer goes for $200. What's a fair price for the disposal of my asset? Especially if I used it once per month for 10 years. ie. not a scratch on it.
The low ballers will come to an estate sale and claim it's old and worth 10% of what I paid trying to score it for $10. They know full well the same device new is $200 plus shipping and taxes.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
Dave I think an exit strategy is vital... to be fair to your partner/spouse or other family, whether to maximize the value of your estate or to make the disposal of assets easier. To identify people you may want to gift your prized possession to, or those who can help dispose of your collection in exchange for some material benefit...It looks like this deal may be going sideways but I'd just like to observe that your approach to establishing the going rate objectively by market transactions/data is very good - especially when you are dealing with the family having to dispose of their loved one's equipment and attempting to get the best value for it (and I mean fair to all). Market value in writing, based on actual sales is the least ambiguous and least adversarial for lack of better word, way to establish a credible basis for the offer. It counters the arbitrary opinions like Covid's impact etc., providing facts and is valuable especially when the seller doesn't have a good idea of the value. Cuts out some he said - they said haggling over opinions.
I know this is effective - and fair. When I was shopping for my mill I discussed price with the family and one (deciding) member was adamant that the machine was worth their asking price based on their "research". I politely thanked them for their time and asked if I could leave my research with them and then left contented that I had walked away from a machine that I would not buy at an unrealistic price. I reconciled that it was still good experience to make the trip.
To my pleasure, the next day I got a call to come and get my machine - at my price. I think that giving the family time to go over my market info in private was also important in saving face.
Now, another related thought: I'm not near the (respectfully....) geezer stage or planning on kicking off any time soon but I have had the thought that I should prepare a divestiture plan in case my other half is faced with selling off my tools at some point. I'm thinking at least a portfolio of equipment with particular attention paid to the big ticket items with photos, description/features and market info, basically what's needed to write a proper advertisement and where to advertise. A place like this group is a good place to start.
@TorontoBuilder , hope your deal works out for the best in the end, whatever that turns into.
D
My brother and I plan to give everything to the surviving person, and then to dispose of through sales of high value items and gifts to friends if they're still around. I still need to get one of those insurance inventory forms to complete including photos, because we also need updated contents insurance now
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
IF your goal is to maximize the resale value to the estate you absolutely need a software based inventory program that you must update annually with updated resale values of the high priced items. I've been doing this for years but without the software program. It is difficult to keep up with so every year I drop tracking of any item not worth at least $250. Set your limit at your comfort level and time commitment capacities
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
I dont remember if I posted this on an open forum, but in order to even get the woman's name I sent verifiable sales info to the woman's representative. I'm not sure if he passed that along to her, but I sent this and other info:
Here is a much newer model Colchester lathe of the same size. this one was a 575v model built in the year 2000, and had many accessories including a digital read out worth more than $1500 and was in very good condition. It sold for 5100 plus totalling about $6200
![img.axd]( "img.axd")
Here is a Colchester lathe from the same era, but larger 7.5 HP motor rather than the 5 HP motor in your neighbours lathe.
You can verify the sale price here:
https://hibid.com/lot/137090857/colchester-triumph-2000-lathe?ref=catalog
It is 15"x50" lathe whereas your neighbours is a 13"x40" lathe... generally larger lathes cost more, but they also take up more space so there are fewer buyers for them.
This lathe was in decent shape, and had a digital read out. The lathe only sold for $3300 plus fees, so about $4100 total.
![img.axd]( "img.axd")
Since I forwarded them the link to the final sales price the auctioneer has taken down the information... they really are a special type of secretive..
Here is a much newer model Colchester lathe of the same size. this one was a 575v model built in the year 2000, and had many accessories including a digital read out worth more than $1500 and was in very good condition. It sold for 5100 plus totalling about $6200
Here is a Colchester lathe from the same era, but larger 7.5 HP motor rather than the 5 HP motor in your neighbours lathe.
You can verify the sale price here:
https://hibid.com/lot/137090857/colchester-triumph-2000-lathe?ref=catalog
It is 15"x50" lathe whereas your neighbours is a 13"x40" lathe... generally larger lathes cost more, but they also take up more space so there are fewer buyers for them.
This lathe was in decent shape, and had a digital read out. The lathe only sold for $3300 plus fees, so about $4100 total.
Since I forwarded them the link to the final sales price the auctioneer has taken down the information... they really are a special type of secretive..