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For the lead casters
- Thread starter Johnwa
- Start date
historicalarms
Ultra Member
Im not a facebook member so cant access the add.
Ya some folks that are into casting muzzleloaders require dead soft pure lead so the slugs can be loaded but there are a pile of guys loading cartridge rifles & handguns that shoot 10's of thousands of harder alloy bullets. Clip-on WW are significantly harder lead than pure lead.
The trouble with clip-on's now is that a significant amount of scrap WW is of Zinc that don't make good bullets. A small amount of zinc wont hurt (less than 1%) but any more than that will totally ruin that lead for bullets. The problem is that some guys melting lead away from the clips and have zinc weights in the pot, let the melt temp get higher than 750 Deg F. and zinc starts to melt at that temp so they are combined with the lead. If a melt temp is held at 650-700 the zinc weights wont melt and are easily removed from the equation along with the rest of the clips.
Zink contaminated ingots can be easily identified by two methods...the outside appearance , it will be mottled with what look like air bubbles on the outer surface where it didn't mold completly to the muffin trays or whatever was used ( this is why they don't work for bullets, incomplete mold fill-out). Zink contaminated alloys are significantly less expensive than "good alloy" for bullet casters...mostly only good for fish weights or cannon balls.
the second way is to have it "gun tested" for metal content at any scrap metal dealer shop...might cost you a dozen doughnuts but will tell you an accurate zinc content.
1200 lbs of lead would be a significant pi$$ of if it was contaminated for its intended purpose
Ya some folks that are into casting muzzleloaders require dead soft pure lead so the slugs can be loaded but there are a pile of guys loading cartridge rifles & handguns that shoot 10's of thousands of harder alloy bullets. Clip-on WW are significantly harder lead than pure lead.
The trouble with clip-on's now is that a significant amount of scrap WW is of Zinc that don't make good bullets. A small amount of zinc wont hurt (less than 1%) but any more than that will totally ruin that lead for bullets. The problem is that some guys melting lead away from the clips and have zinc weights in the pot, let the melt temp get higher than 750 Deg F. and zinc starts to melt at that temp so they are combined with the lead. If a melt temp is held at 650-700 the zinc weights wont melt and are easily removed from the equation along with the rest of the clips.
Zink contaminated ingots can be easily identified by two methods...the outside appearance , it will be mottled with what look like air bubbles on the outer surface where it didn't mold completly to the muffin trays or whatever was used ( this is why they don't work for bullets, incomplete mold fill-out). Zink contaminated alloys are significantly less expensive than "good alloy" for bullet casters...mostly only good for fish weights or cannon balls.
the second way is to have it "gun tested" for metal content at any scrap metal dealer shop...might cost you a dozen doughnuts but will tell you an accurate zinc content.
1200 lbs of lead would be a significant pi$$ of if it was contaminated for its intended purpose
What sort of pricing is he asking —. I’m assuming so much per pound
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I went back and forth with him a couple times. He said $2 per pound for smaller quantities, less for larger quantities.
I offered him $300 for 200# ($1.50 per #), he came back at $350 for 200#. Then he responded that he would check hardness today, now ad says pending so maybe he has a deal for the whole 1200# ?
I have smelted my own COWW before so I am aware of Zinc WW and how to sort them out. When I did it myself, I kept a small burner with a low flame under them. Was slow to melt but actually kind of amazing to watch the steel clips (and the zinc weights I missed) float on the surface of the lead, just skim the steel and zinc off before temp gets high enough to melt the zinc.
Yes, buying from an un-known source is kind of risky (if casting bullets is your intended use).
Impression I had after doing a few batches myself is that wheel weight mixes may not be as hard as they used to be just because of the increasing number of "stick on wheel weights" (more alloy wheels = more stick ons). In the batches that I've done, I'd estimate maybe 5% stick ons and any of those that I tried to cut with side cutters seemed much softer than the clip ons so I think they're much closer to "pure" lead. That glue sure does smoke though when you throw them in the pot.
I offered him $300 for 200# ($1.50 per #), he came back at $350 for 200#. Then he responded that he would check hardness today, now ad says pending so maybe he has a deal for the whole 1200# ?
I have smelted my own COWW before so I am aware of Zinc WW and how to sort them out. When I did it myself, I kept a small burner with a low flame under them. Was slow to melt but actually kind of amazing to watch the steel clips (and the zinc weights I missed) float on the surface of the lead, just skim the steel and zinc off before temp gets high enough to melt the zinc.
Yes, buying from an un-known source is kind of risky (if casting bullets is your intended use).
Impression I had after doing a few batches myself is that wheel weight mixes may not be as hard as they used to be just because of the increasing number of "stick on wheel weights" (more alloy wheels = more stick ons). In the batches that I've done, I'd estimate maybe 5% stick ons and any of those that I tried to cut with side cutters seemed much softer than the clip ons so I think they're much closer to "pure" lead. That glue sure does smoke though when you throw them in the pot.
historicalarms
Ultra Member
yes the stick -on's are pure lead. Lots of casters have their own hardness testers and they are pretty consistent at 5-6 Brinel. One of my "shop projects" a few years ago was to build a "Cabin Tree" style lead tester(youtube) and it works very well.
COWW will vary from BN 10 to close to 15 with different manufacturers. Antimony content will vary from 1-2.5% . Comercial "hard cast bullets will run BN 23-27.
Those ingots in Johns photo appear to b e very well formed to the pan sides so I wouldn't hesitate to buy some for bullets...but not at $2 lb. for WW alloy. I would consider $2 lb for smelter certified alloyed melt to a specific hardness alloy or Lynotype but not "suspect alloy " such as mixed WW. $1.50 lb would be tops for WW ( it would have to be very well fluxed & clean) even at that price. WW themselves can be had with some looking for $20 for 180 lb 5 gal. pail.
Casters are starting to shy away from COWW now because of the over abundance of Zinc weights opposed to real lead...The current "most popular source" is old sailboat keels from marina's. Large quantities of lead come out of those old boats I'm told, 600 -1500 lbs quite common.
COWW will vary from BN 10 to close to 15 with different manufacturers. Antimony content will vary from 1-2.5% . Comercial "hard cast bullets will run BN 23-27.
Those ingots in Johns photo appear to b e very well formed to the pan sides so I wouldn't hesitate to buy some for bullets...but not at $2 lb. for WW alloy. I would consider $2 lb for smelter certified alloyed melt to a specific hardness alloy or Lynotype but not "suspect alloy " such as mixed WW. $1.50 lb would be tops for WW ( it would have to be very well fluxed & clean) even at that price. WW themselves can be had with some looking for $20 for 180 lb 5 gal. pail.
Casters are starting to shy away from COWW now because of the over abundance of Zinc weights opposed to real lead...The current "most popular source" is old sailboat keels from marina's. Large quantities of lead come out of those old boats I'm told, 600 -1500 lbs quite common.
Yes, The last COWW I bought were at a tire shop - $20 for for a 5 gal pail, no way did I even try to lift it, one of the young guys from the shop lifted it into the back of my truck for me. Cigarette butts, valve stems etc. in there. By the time I smelted them, separated the steel clips and the zinc weights I think I got about 100 # of lead from it.
I've shot it in 45-70 and 38-55's, worked pretty well I thought. I would like to get closer to "pure" but haven't come across much other than the "stick ons" and I just threw that in with the rest of the COWW.
I've shot it in 45-70 and 38-55's, worked pretty well I thought. I would like to get closer to "pure" but haven't come across much other than the "stick ons" and I just threw that in with the rest of the COWW.
I'll trade you pure (or very close to) lead for WW lead. lb for lb.