Facing tool for the mill

[trlvn]

Busy Bee has this 2 inch facing end mill on special ($90)--1/3 to 1/4 the cost of a similar tool from KBC:

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/end-mill-2in-with-3-carbide-inserts-r8.html

Are these worthwhile for a newbie or should I save my pennies for better tool? Fly cutters are dirt cheap by comparison and I'm getting pretty comfortable with grinding HSS cutters.

BTW, I can't even tell what inserts go in this. I've briefly looked at carbide inserts in the past and the complexity of choosing the shape, geometry, grade, coating, etc makes deciphering the income tax act look like a walk in the park!

Craig

 

[YYCHM]

A book I have claims fly cutters are the better option for smaller mills.

 

[Dusty]

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/end-mill-2in-with-3-carbide-inserts-r8.html

When you read further down the page it states 3 carbide cutters come with the tool, check them out here.

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/carbide-insert-for-b2136-end-mill-3pcs.html

Bill

 

[trlvn]

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/end-mill-2in-with-3-carbide-inserts-r8.html

When you read further down the page it states 3 carbide cutters come with the tool, check them out here.

https://www.busybeetools.com/products/carbide-insert-for-b2136-end-mill-3pcs.html

Thanks for the link to the replacement inserts. Does anyone know if these are 'standard' inserts?

I found a similar product on Shars:

https://www.shars.com/products/inde...milling/r8-shank-2-carbide-indexable-end-mill USD $31.50

They say it uses "TPG, TPMR, TPU" style inserts in sizes "431, 432, 433, 434". Presumably I can buy these from various suppliers.

Craig

 

[JohnW]

If I were to to consider a Chinese cutter from BB (and I would), I would get this or something similar instead for about $50CAD. Go directly to the source.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32975531654.html

 

[Dusty]

Craig I have the identical tool from Busy Bee although in Morse Taper. Purchased same several years back along with a second set of inserts also from Busy Bee and yes the cutters are common inserts. More than pleased with my tool even though I don't use it that much. There are many tools in one's tool collect that fall into the seldom used category until needed. I would use a lot of caution before buying off shore but that's just me.

Bill

 

[Brent H]

Hi Craig

What HP is your mill? Fly cutters can leave a super finish and are indeed less stress on a smaller mill.

The carbide inserts do add some extra cost and a HSS bit will work great.

Brent

 

[Bofobo]

I have both arbour mills and fly cutter. I happen to have gotten a large amount of the triangle inserts free from an auction horde for which the shop I worked at did not have a holder, it cuts well and I have had great results with it. A Fly cutter works great to Finish in a large sweep pattern, for heavy material removal I use the 2” 4insert because the set screw is in the middle of the insert rather than the triangle held on one corner. However I have the most choice of different profiles on the triangle 3insert type, if you have a mini mill that is not upgraded I would suggest you use the fly cutter, after belt drive conversion or better than 1/2 hp motor as oem/upgrade the triangle one is usable

 

[trlvn]

What HP is your mill? Fly cutters can leave a super finish and are indeed less stress on a smaller mill.

The carbide inserts do add some extra cost and a HSS bit will work great.

My mill has a "1-1/2" HP motor--12 amps at 220 volts so fairly beefy. 120 to 2,500 RPM. I see that 670 RPM is recommended for a 2" carbide end mill. With 4 cutters, it can feed up to 32 inches per minute.

If the effective diameter of a fly cutter is 3 inches with a HSS cutter, 110 RPMs is recommended. And the feed rate is only 1 inch per minute.

Craig

 

[trlvn]

I have both arbour mills and fly cutter. I happen to have gotten a large amount of the triangle inserts free from an auction horde for which the shop I worked at did not have a holder, it cuts well and I have had great results with it. A Fly cutter works great to Finish in a large sweep pattern, for heavy material removal I use the 2” 4insert because the set screw is in the middle of the insert rather than the triangle held on one corner. However I have the most choice of different profiles on the triangle 3insert type, if you have a mini mill that is not upgraded I would suggest you use the fly cutter, after belt drive conversion or better than 1/2 hp motor as oem/upgrade the triangle one is usable

Your arbor mills are offshore? I expect that the manufacturing tolerances ought to be good enough but just want to be sure. If they're not, in the best case one cutter could be doing all the work. In the worst case, it could throw inserts or the head at me!

Craig

 

[ducdon]

I have one of those. I found it very rough . Lots of vibration. Most face mills have have 4, 5 or 6 cutters and different geometry. I never use it. I much prefer a roughing end mill for heavy cuts and then finish with a fly cutter. If you want to try it you can have it for the shipping cost.

 

[Brent H]

Hey Craig,

Your mill has the balls to do the job. You should be able to use a decent size arbor mill.

I have an 1-1/2” with 5 inserts and it works great. At work our little mill can have great results with a fly cutter, useless with an arbor mill.

 

[Bofobo]

Your arbor mills are offshore? I expect that the manufacturing tolerances ought to be good enough but just want to be sure. If they're not, in the best case one cutter could be doing all the work. In the worst case, it could throw inserts or the head at me!

Craig

Yes all off shore, eBay under $40 for arbour, head and 10 inserts. Extra Inserts were easy to find there to but local shop likely carries better that will fit fine

 

[PeterT]

I have a 1.5"? R8 shank mill cutter that uses 3 triangular inserts. It just did not provide a good finish regardless of trying different kinds of inserts, nose radius etc. I popped it in my new heavier mill just to confirm & same result. Cant say for sure but chocked it up to so-so geometry or design. I thought I would keep it for cutting crap steel but I'm not sure its really good for that. I get better results with roughing end mills.

I then bought a Taiwan 2" dia 4 insert APKT 16xx type face mill when it came on sale & results are excellent on both aluminum & steel. I basically don't use a flycutter anymore. Its a better quality head for sure. Those style of inserts only have 2 cutting corners vs 3 on the triangular. But I notice there are other kinds of heads that you can use the same insert in lay down mode. I have bought my inserts from Ebay or Ali at reduced price with 100% satisfaction so far. https://www.shars.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=451&q=apkt
I have also read complaints from people who bought Chinese / knockoff APKT 16xx heads & had complaints measuring irregular insert pockets, so it might be a buyer beware type deal.
On my RF-45 bench mill, I think 2" is a reasonable size. Most times I just jogged over a half diameter per pass. A more full % overlap looks pretty but you have reduced DOC if power & rigidity is the typical limitation.

There are other face milling insert styles with more usable corners so do some checking.

 

[kylemp]

I used the same facemill when I was testing the tormach I got - I had surprisingly good results and it's a pretty low hp machine. Maybe I got lucky, not sure.. But the surface was completely smooth. Face mills generally take light cuts, which could be the issues some other people are having, again not sure. Import tooling can be a crap shoot, that shars one looks cheap enough to try out in my opinion if the shipping doesn't kill it.

 

[trlvn]

I have a 1.5"? R8 shank mill cutter that uses 3 triangular inserts. It just did not provide a good finish regardless of trying different kinds of inserts, nose radius etc. I popped it in my new heavier mill just to confirm & same result. Cant say for sure but chocked it up to so-so geometry or design. I thought I would keep it for cutting crap steel but I'm not sure its really good for that. I get better results with roughing end mills.

I then bought a Taiwan 2" dia 4 insert APKT 16xx type face mill when it came on sale & results are excellent on both aluminum & steel. I basically don't use a flycutter anymore. Its a better quality head for sure. Those style of inserts only have 2 cutting corners vs 3 on the triangular. But I notice there are other kinds of heads that you can use the same insert in lay down mode. I have bought my inserts from Ebay or Ali at reduced price with 100% satisfaction so far. https://www.shars.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=451&q=apkt
I have also read complaints from people who bought Chinese / knockoff APKT 16xx heads & had complaints measuring irregular insert pockets, so it might be a buyer beware type deal.
On my RF-45 bench mill, I think 2" is a reasonable size. Most times I just jogged over a half diameter per pass. A more full % overlap looks pretty but you have reduced DOC if power & rigidity is the typical limitation.

There are other face milling insert styles with more usable corners so do some checking.

Peter:

Thanks for all the information, really appreciate the specifics! It does seem that you roll the dice on low-cost Chinese tools. Some are great, some are crap.

I like the idea of using a carbide insert tool for initial dimensioning/stock removal. A couple of people have mentioned using roughing end mills, however. A single big carbide rougher would be as much or more than these arbor mills, right? Do you guys use cobalt roughers instead?

I don't think I'm going to rush to purchase tooling right now. I thought the Busy Bee offer looked good initially but it would be easy to get something for less via Shars, BangGood or AliExpress. I do have a fly cutter that I'm going to try out.

Craig

 

[trlvn]

@kylemp That sure looks good to me!

Craig