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Clarkson end mill holder

Since I have a crap load of Clarkson end mills I decided to acquire a proper Clarkson end mill holder. The holder came with 4 collet sizes; 1/4 to 5/8. The 1/4 collet however seems to be way too tight. The end mill should turn freely in the collet before tightening but not in this one. As far as I can measure the opening of the collet is about 5 thou too narrow. What is the best way to fix this???
 
Is this a new set or used? Could be a burr on the collet? Sometimes end mills are not to tolerance, especially off shore cutters. Maybe it’s a 6 mm collet that was mixed up?
Cheers
Martin
 
Is this a new set or used? Could be a burr on the collet? Sometimes end mills are not to tolerance, especially off shore cutters. Maybe it’s a 6 mm collet that was mixed up?
Cheers
Martin
It's a used set from England. It's labelled/engraved 1/4 inch so can't be a metric mixup. I'm pretty sure it's just been mistreated. Either tightened empty or with a smaller metric end mill in it.

Anyway I have solved the problem to my satisfaction already. I carefully pressed larger diameter things into it and carefully made light hammer blows on a tapered object in the collet opening. Was afraid the collet would break but figured I had nothing to lose. It was initially unusable at about 5 thou too narrow. I managed to expand it to about 1 thou too narrow. It's still a bit too snug but usable at this point. I'm now able to thread a 1/4 inch end mill into the collet by hand without undue difficulty.
 
My WA guess is that the collet ears got yielded - probably by tightening beyond its design range. To fix it half ass, it will need to be annealed, expanded till it yields the other way, and then rehardened. But it will likely lose some concentricity in that process. You could try just expanding it till it yields to just clear a 1/4 pin. But to be honest, I'm thinking it's probably toast. What does a new one cost?

Edit - I wrote this yesterday but forgot to press send. Sounds like you have done what I would have done. But reading your version, I think there might be a better way. Tightening on a taper probably won't correct a yielded collet where it needs to be corrected. Consider using the tapered mandrel to open the collet enough to allow entry and subsequent clamping of a series of calibrated pins each a few thou bigger than the one before it until a 1/4 pin will slide in without any interference at all. Sounds like you are already close, and maybe even "close enough", but the idea is to reverse the yielding at the former yielded location itself not elsewhere. This might make it useable but I'm not sure this will preserve the original concentricity of the collet. You will have to confirm that yourself. Worst case, you buy another 1/4" collet.
 
My WA guess is that the collet ears got yielded - probably by tightening beyond its design range. To fix it half ass, it will need to be annealed, expanded till it yields the other way, and then rehardened. But it will likely lose some concentricity in that process. You could try just expanding it till it yields to just clear a 1/4 pin. But to be honest, I'm thinking it's probably toast. What does a new one cost?

Edit - I wrote this yesterday but forgot to press send. Sounds like you have done what I would have done. But reading your version, I think there might be a better way. Tightening on a taper probably won't correct a yielded collet where it needs to be corrected. Consider using the tapered mandrel to open the collet enough to allow entry and subsequent clamping of a series of calibrated pins each a few thou bigger than the one before it until a 1/4 pin will slide in without any interference at all. Sounds like you are already close, and maybe even "close enough", but the idea is to reverse the yielding at the former yielded location itself not elsewhere. This might make it useable but I'm not sure this will preserve the original concentricity of the collet. You will have to confirm that yourself. Worst case, you buy another 1/4" collet.
Not sure I can even buy a replacement collet at any price. Seems to me this is old technology and the stuff is now hard to find. Seems to me it's largely been replaced by the ER collet system.
 
Not sure I can even buy a replacement collet at any price. Seems to me this is old technology and the stuff is now hard to find. Seems to me it's largely been replaced by the ER collet system.

I don't know Ian. I never used what I did have and have given it all away. You might be right.

At a minimum, you have managed to make what you have usable - so kudos to you!
 
If anyone else out there has Clarkson tooling they don't want I'd be interested. I've taken a shine to it!

Too bad, I would have flat out given it to you at the meetup if I'd known you wanted it. I gave Stelios some 40 Taper stuff at the meet. I'll have to look and see if I have any Clarkson Tooling. You never know!
 
In case anyone out there is not familiar with what I mean by Clarkson tooling here is a pic of my R8 version. It's the end mills with threaded shanks and the special tool holders that hold them. You can hold them with ER collets but if any part of the ER collet is over the thread it won't grip on the threaded part as the threads are a slightly smaller diameter.

Edit: I do not yet have a holder for my 1 inch Clarkson end mills.

clarkson.JPG
 
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Just a suggestion here. Maybe hone it out.
Take a piece of round stock 3-5" long that will go in the hole. Hacksaw a slit down the rod maybe about 3/4" take a short piece of emery cloth the width of the slot and slip it in. Chuck the rod in a drill You will have a crude hone but it works.
Respectfully
 
In case anyone out there is not familiar with what I mean by Clarkson tooling here is a pic of my R8 version. It's the end mills with threaded shanks and the special tool holders that hold them. You can hold them with ER collets but if any part of the ER collet is over the thread it won't grip on the threaded part as the threads are a slightly smaller diameter.

Hey Ian, just wondering how the whole thing works. Is the holder collet threaded internally? If so, do you have to thread the tool in first and then how is it clamped?

Or do you just insert the tool and it finds its own seat on the thread to clamp?
 
I have quite a few of that style end mill that came with my last mill. I have always just used and ER collet and never thought twice about it. Never had any issues, in fact did it just yesterday. I wouldn't be worried about the ER collet only grabbing on the smooth shank. Not very much contact area across the peek of the threads so you are not really loosing much gripping surface.
 
Hey Ian, just wondering how the whole thing works. Is the holder collet threaded internally? If so, do you have to thread the tool in first and then how is it clamped?

Or do you just insert the tool and it finds its own seat on the thread to clamp?
Yes the holder collet is threaded internally and there is a point in the holder that the end mills counter sunk hole at end of shank fits into.Things are finger tightened so that the end mill is up against the point in the holder before final tightening with the wrench. There must not be a gap between the nut and the body. The cutter will self tighten depending on how high the cutting forces. The cutter will not screw into the body any further when it does this. All that happens is that when the cutter turns, it forces the collet downwards into the taper of the nut and this in turn increases the grip on the cutter. The system is supposed to prevent the cutter from pulling out or shifting due to cutting forces.

Kind of difficult to explain in an easily understood way and also difficult to photograph all the relevant features. Lots of info about it on the net tho.
 
Ian, I have 4 Clarkson holders but they are 40 taper. If you can use one I’d be willing to part with one. I also have a Clarkson deadlok shell mill holder as well on my hbm.
Martin
 

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Clarkson developed this holder to prevent damage to parts and mills.
If you ever take heavy cuts in a slot with a helical end mill, they will pull out. If you’ve ever seen a milling machine with a slot cut into it, that is probably what happened. You wouldn’t necessarily even know it was pulling out until it was too late or broke the cutter.
 
Ian, I have 4 Clarkson holders but they are 40 taper. If you can use one I’d be willing to part with one. I also have a Clarkson deadlok shell mill holder as well on my hbm.
Martin
Thanks for the offer Martin but I have no machines that use a 40 taper at this time.
 
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