Big KBC Knee Mill - Kitchener - $6000

[SomeGuy]

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Looks to be a $16,000 machine new:

KBC,TUM-1VS MILL PKG W/NEWALL NMS300,6-265-007-N3,KBC Tools & Machinery

KBC,TUM-1VS MILL PKG W/NEWALL NMS300,6-265-007-N3,KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

 

[Susquatch]

Expensive but guessing it's worth it. The KBC Bridgeport Clones are well made as clones go.

 

[LenVW]

Mill looks well maintained and clean, power table feed.
(Good machinist signals)

Bring a piece of HRS along and take a test cut with an End Mill.
This should bring to light any loose ways or worn spindles.

 

[trlvn]

Motor tag clearly shows that it is a 3 phase 240 V machine while the ad says it is used in a "private home" but doesn't mention a VFD or phase converter.

Also, the machine is presumably 17 years old and the asking price is 1/2 of new retail?

Craig

 

[Dabbler]

@trlvn Your market is more vigorous than ours in Calgary. Here, he'd get it in a day or 2, no problem. I assume that you think far less is reasonable. What pricing do you think would be fair over there?

 

[trlvn]

@Dabbler I don't know what would be a reasonable price. If the buyer has to supply 3 phase power, that would change the equation quite a bit. Also, the pictures show a vise but it isn't clear if that or any other tools or accessories are included.

Maybe this machine is in like-new condition and $6k is a deal? I guess I'm of the school that 'if it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't'.

BTW, a clean, single phase Bridgeport is available from the guy at West Montrose (near Kitchener, ON) for $4,250:

Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds

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No DRO or powerfeed, though.

I also find FakeBook Marketplace a weird choice to sell an industrial-duty milling machine. Overpriced MCM furniture, sure. Monster chip-makers, not so sure. Probably it is just me.

Craig

 

[Susquatch]

@trlvn Your market is more vigorous than ours in Calgary. Here, he'd get it in a day or 2, no problem. I assume that you think far less is reasonable. What pricing do you think would be fair over there?

I dunno if I'm even qualified to say anything here, but I do have an opinion.

A fair number of people or businesses are willing to pay full retail price for a new machine. Even a few of our members are. If they didn't, there would be no used machines around at all.

If we assume that this machine really was used in a private shop setting and really is in the condition it is claimed to be in, I'd say it is worth the asking price. The fact that it sat (like new) in a shop somewhere for 15 years doesn't change that. In fact, some buyers might even prefer to buy an older machine in good condition than a brand new one that the bean counters got at.

Speaking only for myself, if I didn't already have a mill that I love, half price for like new, very very low probability of any hidden problems to deal with, and ready to add a VFD to a 3HP motor that will run in my shop sounds very enticing. I'd prolly hope I could talk that down to 6 though.

I know I'm not qualified to make that a valid opinion for others to take as advice, but it is what I think.

 

[Susquatch]

I guess I'm of the school that 'if it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't'.

I laughed right out loud at that one! I say that all the time too!

On the other hand....... That price is not really too good to be true. The condition of the unit is.

3ph power is not an issue. A 3hp vfd would clobber that issue for a few hundred dollars and improve the mills performance at the same time.

 

[Tom Kitta]

This would be an OK price in Calgary area - but I feel like in Ontario you should get a better deal.
Of course it assumes its in perfect working order.

Note that there are like 5 BPs in Kitchener area for sale - and all of them are under 5000 CAD. So this one is $1000 more then the next cheapest BP and there is plenty to choose from when you are there.

 

[SomeGuy]

This would be an OK price in Calgary area - but I feel like in Ontario you should get a better deal.
Of course it assumes its in perfect working order.

Note that there are like 5 BPs in Kitchener area for sale - and all of them are under 5000 CAD. So this one is $1000 more then the next cheapest BP and there is plenty to choose from when you are there.

A lot of those are clapped out old machines though without any bells (DRO) or whistles (power feed). It's also a 2700lb 3hp machine, bigger than some bridgeports.

If I had space for a machine this size, it would seriously peak my interest and I'd throw a $5000 offer out for it.

 

[Susquatch]

A lot of those are clapped out old machines though without any bells (DRO) or whistles (power feed). It's also a 2700lb 3hp machine, bigger than some bridgeports.

If I had space for a machine this size, it would seriously peak my interest and I'd throw a $5000 offer out for it.

Yup, yup & nope. I don't want another machine.

Now, if I didn't have one already, I'd already be there with cash in hand and my trailer parked around the block giving it a good going over and trying to get a better deal.

What's not to like about an older like-new machine? Assuming it really is as described......

 

[140mower]

Yup, yup & nope. I don't want another machine.

Now, if I didn't have one already, I'd already be there with cash in hand and my trailer parked around the block giving it a good going over and trying to get a better deal.

What's not to like about an older like-new machine? Assuming it really is as described......

I would rather pay more for low hours and original paint than what is being asked for the freshly painted ones on another thread.

 

[Tom Kitta]

A lot of those are clapped out old machines though without any bells (DRO) or whistles (power feed). It's also a 2700lb 3hp machine, bigger than some bridgeports.

If I had space for a machine this size, it would seriously peak my interest and I'd throw a $5000 offer out for it.

Well, a lot of them are not clapped out - how do you know this one is not clapped out?

 

[Tom Kitta]

I would rather pay more for low hours and original paint than what is being asked for the freshly painted ones on another thread.

I actually do not care too much about paint. We do not machine with paint
There are a LOT of machines in that area. A LOT. So you can pick and choose.

I fail to see why other machines are somehow bad - if I had a choice between older in great shape BP and this machine while BP was 1000 cheaper or more, its a no brainer - I go for BP. Come on, who would pick a knock off over the real thing - if all else is the same?

Maybe I am old fashioned, but if two machines with same use are out there and one of them is brand name, I go for brand name. It certainly will hold value better.

Again, its about ability to machine. If two are identical in all respects, and say same brand - I would pick ... cheaper one.

 

[Susquatch]

I actually do not care too much about paint. We do not machine with paint
There are a LOT of machines in that area. A LOT. So you can pick and choose.

I fail to see why other machines are somehow bad - if I had a choice between older in great shape BP and this machine while BP was 1000 cheaper or more, its a no brainer - I go for BP. Come on, who would pick a knock off over the real thing - if all else is the same?

Maybe I am old fashioned, but if two machines with same use are out there and one of them is brand name, I go for brand name. It certainly will hold value better.

Again, its about ability to machine. If two are identical in all respects, and say same brand - I would pick ... cheaper one.

Not gunna argue with most of your points. Although I did choose clone over brand name because the brand name required too much repair.

I think we ALL need to careful not to assume too much.

I am in the camp that thinks fresh paint is a red flag. Somebody is trying to blind the buyer with shiny new paint. Doesn't mean that's true, just means my Spidey senses are on red alert.

You are assuming there has to be something wrong with the clone. I'd be willing to go look. But I'm not buying anything till I examine it in detail and see how well it's used - does the wear match the claim?

That's a VERY clean looking machine. I think it's worth a look and might be worth the ask.

On the other hand, the brand name Bridgeports posted recently - and especially the one with new paint make me nervous. But again, ya gotta go look. It is totally true that it could be a like-new machine with new makeup and that would make it the deal of the century.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Not gunna argue with most of your points. Although I did choose clone over brand name because the brand name required too much repair.

I think both sides of this debate are assuming too much.

I am in the camp that thinks fresh paint is a red flag. Somebody is trying to blind the buyer with shiny new paint. Doesn't mean that's true, just means my Spidey senses are on red alert.

You are assuming there has to be something wrong with the clone. I'd be willing to go look. But I'm not buying anything till I examine it in detail and see how well it's used - does the wear match the claim?

That's a VERY clean looking machine. I think it's worth a look and might be worth the ask.

On the other hand, the brand name Bridgeports posted recently - and especially the one with new paint make me nervous. But again, ya gotta go look. It is totally true that it could be a like-new machine with new makeup and that would make it the deal of the century.

Note to self, when dealing with older machines I try to resell DO NOT put all the work into painting them, saves time and buyers may actually pay more!

Heck, maybe I should not even fix these suckers up

In my humble opinion the best machine as per pictures in the area is that 40 taper machine. Its probably like 3500 - 4000 lbs and can be used as horizontal. If its in good condition - its a steal even in ON for that $$$.

 

[Susquatch]

Note to self, when dealing with older machines I try to resell DO NOT put all the work into painting them, saves time and buyers may actually pay more!

Heck, maybe I should not even fix these suckers up

In my humble opinion the best machine as per pictures in the area is that 40 taper machine. Its probably like 3500 - 4000 lbs and can be used as horizontal. If its in good condition - its a steal even in ON for that $$$.

Ya you might be right on that one. That was a nice machine. I can't find it right now, can you help?

 

[Tom Kitta]

Milling Machines (as in more than one). Kitchener On

https://www.kijiji.ca/o-profile/4932209/listings/1 $4250 $5000 $3850 $4500

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Its the one for $5000.

 

[Susquatch]

Note to self, when dealing with older machines I try to resell DO NOT put all the work into painting them, saves time and buyers may actually pay more!

Heck, maybe I should not even fix these suckers up

When I sold my BP, I was told time after time by buyers, do not paint, do not repair. The guy that bought it was emphatic. You paint it, I don't want it. I wanna see it as is and do my own paint and repairs and I don't want to pay you extra to do it for me.

So ya, I think your note to self has merit..... But maybe it's only all those savy eastern buyers....

 

[Susquatch]

Milling Machines (as in more than one). Kitchener On

https://www.kijiji.ca/o-profile/4932209/listings/1 $4250 $5000 $3850 $4500

canadianhobbymetalworkers.com

Its the one for $5000.

Nice machine. But I do have to be honest, that paint does scare me. So does the fact that one guy has so many machines for sale out of his house. That smacks of a guy who bought it for half that, painted it, and put it in the window for sale..... As I said before though, you gotta go look. Ya, it is tempting.