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Anyone Used JP Metal in Calgary for Laser Cutting?

CalgaryPT

Ultra Member
Vendor
Premium Member
I have a part that is labour intensive and I need 500-1000 made. It's 1/8" steel and each part is about 1.25" square. There is a small hole on each one that makes plasma impractical, so am looking at laser.

Has anyone used them? Any feedback???

Also looking at getting custom die made for punching depending on costs.
 
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PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Its been a long while since I had anything lasered, but since you are checking around - Laser Equation in NE. Sometimes, prices can fluctuate with materials in because behind the scenes they may have some leftover stock. Also (without seeing your part & tolerances & whatnot) consider water jet. I used Clearcut for an odd water jet request & they seemed quite reasonable to work with. Beware lasering pilot holes that you will be tapping. It tends to locally harden. Even pilot drilling using the hole as a guide can be fun depending on the thickness. Good luck!
 

CalgaryPT

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Vendor
Premium Member
Beware lasering pilot holes that you will be tapping. It tends to locally harden. Even pilot drilling using the hole as a guide can be fun depending on the thickness. Good luck!

Thanks, much appreciated. The holes won't be drilled or tapped. I'll check out your NE option too.
 

CalgaryPT

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Vendor
Premium Member
Update: great service from JP Metal Manufacturing off 61st AV. I don't have a CAD package anymore but I do have a vector program on my Mac. However, I didn't have access to my PowerBook so I just sketched it on graph paper, took a pic on my phone and emailed it in early Thursday PM. Sandy had a quote for me in a few hours and then called back as my chicken scratch drawing had a problem with a radius. Resolved, deposit paid...off to the races. Sadly I never did get a second quote because these guys were so good to me and FAST I just went with them. On my own each part was almost 20 mins/piece labour plus a lot of waste as a safety factor using my ironworker. In the end it was $1.25 / piece for 250 lot. 10 gauge instead of 1/8". Next run I'll do more and get the price down.

He had a sample for me the next day (Friday AM). Job was done 0900 today (Monday). I was still in bed when they called :)

Even though I'd never hire myself, at minimum wage I'd be looking at $1250, plus waste. Totally worth contracting this piece out!

They'll get more business from me :)

IMG_2316.jpg

P.S. I plan on making a tumbler in the future for these and other parts.
 
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PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Yup, perfect application for laser. It doesn't care for aluminum in much thickness, composites & many plastics - basically anything that dissipates the beam. But sheet metal, lickety split.

Maybe things have changed but I found even when you give them clean drawings in the format & resolution they specify, they still may have to tweak things. It might be a function of the CAM packages they use. It was .DXF back in the day. A buddy of mine had like 500 plates made which had several circles, holes, tangents & fillets. Well the parts looked gross, they were kind of faceted on anything curved. So fingers were pointing & tempers were flaring. I think I have a parameter to increase the output resolution in my software, but some lesser packages may not have this. So be aware.
 

CalgaryPT

Ultra Member
Vendor
Premium Member
Yup, perfect application for laser. So fingers were pointing & tempers were flaring. I think I have a parameter to increase the output resolution in my software, but some lesser packages may not have this. So be aware.

Agreed. I guess why I went with them was because they took the time to call me and say, this radius needs to be modified to work.... I have a lot of CNC plasma experience and know its limitations (and that it won't work for this application). But this was my first laser experience. I'm a big fan of samples...even if I have to pay a layout charge (which I didn't here).

So for a first experience I am thrilled. I just had someone offer me the use of their tumbler for the clean up, which I appreciate. So I just need to find some ceramic media cheap. Again, it saves time on the wire wheel!

But I will definitely do this again. It's all an economic exercise with parts I can't do myself. It reaches a point where I'm not having fun as a small scale shop and would rather just contract out. In this case laser was a great solution.
 

Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
Hi Peter - very interesting. Thank you for sharing the details. You say the plasma would not be suitable. Why exactly?
 

CalgaryPT

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Vendor
Premium Member
A couple of reasons John.

First and foremost the 3/16 hole diameter is too small for consistently good results from plasma. It's at the edge of what CAN be done, but is too close to the edge of plasma's capabilities to produce consistently good results. Also, I need a super smooth ID on these holes as they must free fall around a fastener, so I can't have any internal ripples. @PeterT referred to a localized "hardening" process that occurs with laser, and he is 100% correct. It's problematic if tapping—but really, really, useful if your hole needs to pivot around a fastener like mine does. In my case, if that rippled hole gets caught up on a slight edge and fails to fall with gravity, that's a problem for my customers. The head on the fastener is only mm larger than the hole, so slight deviation could prove a problem. But the clean cut of laser and localized hardening works in my favour if you are aware of the process.

Plasma is great for many, many things, but this isn't one of them. Plasma excels at long runs cuts at the same speed. Tweaking the software for small holes is possible, but consumable wear, plate condition, etc, can throw this all out the door. If cutting several inches or several feet with even gradual curves, plasma is economical and a great choice. But tight stuff, while possible, is an exercise in frustration; it's too many variables. Even if you do get it right, the smallest change in your plate, finish, air, consumable, etc., means you can't replicate it again without adjustments. Fine for one-offs of course...not so so great for 1000 parts.

But the bigger problem is dross clean-up. On large pieces such as one-off silhouette art, this is no biggie. But on a bunch of small pieces like this, it's labour intensive to the point that you lose money. In a nutshell, it's a lot of wire brush work that kills my profit margin.

In the past five years I've refined a few of my patented parts such that I don't need to finish them manually. By matching the appropriate cutting technique (plasma, laser, water jet), with the finishing technique, I've managed to make a profit (mostly). Actually, I kind of enjoy the spreadsheet side of metal working. I remember the moment when I started to understand the business side of this stuff: a fabrication shop I had asked to plasma cut parts for me 12 years ago said, "Are you NUTS? You can't afford the finishing on this. Let's laser them instead. You just remove the tabs yourself."

I'm a big fan of vibration tumbling for larger part runs. I used to have a 50 lbs. tumbler but sold it. I've borrowed a smaller one for this parts run and already got the media. I'll post some videos when I tumble these. One-offs are no big deal to clean up, but for larger runs you can marry the cutting process with media (ceramic, walnut, etc., and the media size), to de-burr, polish, etc., and save 100's of hours.

I've made a few tumblers over the years, but there are so many well made ones available for cheap now, it's not worth it to construct, other than for the fun factor.

Other forum members may have different experiences, but I've learned that picking the correct process is the key to success with repetitive parts. One-offs are another matter—and I am as guilt as others as doing something for the shear fun and eduction factor.

Does this help John?
 
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PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
I'm no laser expert but I've seen varying results on common holes. Some are as good as a drilled hole for practical purposes. Sometimes 98% of the hole is perfect & close tolerance but it has an internal protruding tick. Sometimes you can see the entry burn interfering with the diameter. I suspect its a function of material type, thickness & whatever other many controls the vendor has at their disposal (or cuts corners). One approach is to use them as a pilot hole & finish drill them to suite, but like PT says... more steps = more cost. Thicker material can have a taper too but probably not noticeable for most things we make.
 

Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
A couple of reasons John.

First and foremost the 3/16 hole diameter is too small for consistently good results from plasma. It's at the edge of what CAN be done, but is too close to the edge of plasma's capabilities to produce consistently good results. Also, I need a super smooth ID on these holes as they must free fall around a fastener, so I can't have any internal ripples. @PeterT referred to a localized "hardening" process that occurs with laser, and he is 100% correct. It's problematic if tapping—but really, really, useful if your hole needs to pivot around a fastener like mine does. In my case, if that rippled hole gets caught up on a slight edge and fails to fall with gravity, that's a problem for my customers. The head on the fastener is only mm larger than the hole, so slight deviation could prove a problem. But the clean cut of laser and localized hardening works in my favour if you are aware of the process.

Plasma is great for many, many things, but this isn't one of them. Plasma excels at long runs cuts at the same speed. Tweaking the software for small holes is possible, but consumable wear, plate condition, etc, can throw this all out the door. If cutting several inches or several feet with even gradual curves, plasma is economical and a great choice. But tight stuff, while possible, is an exercise in frustration; it's too many variables. Even if you do get it right, the smallest change in your plate, finish, air, consumable, etc., means you can't replicate it again without adjustments. Fine for one-offs of course...not so so great for 1000 parts.

But the bigger problem is dross clean-up. On large pieces such as one-off silhouette art, this is no biggie. But on a bunch of small pieces like this, it's labour intensive to the point that you lose money. In a nutshell, it's a lot of wire brush work that kills my profit margin.

In the past five years I've refined a few of my patented parts such that I don't need to finish them manually. By matching the appropriate cutting technique (plasma, laser, water jet), with the finishing technique, I've managed to make a profit (mostly). Actually, I kind of enjoy the spreadsheet side of metal working. I remember the moment when I started to understand the business side of this stuff: a fabrication shop I had asked to plasma cut parts for me 12 years ago said, "Are you NUTS? You can't afford the finishing on this. Let's laser them instead. You just remove the tabs yourself."

I'm a big fan of vibration tumbling for larger part runs. I used to have a 50 lbs. tumbler but sold it. I've borrowed a smaller one for this parts run and already got the media. I'll post some videos when I tumble these. One-offs are no big deal to clean up, but for larger runs you can marry the cutting process with media (ceramic, walnut, etc., and the media size), to de-burr, polish, etc., and save 100's of hours.

I've made a few tumblers over the years, but there are so many well made ones available for cheap now, it's not worth it to construct, other than for the fun factor.

Other forum members may have different experiences, but I've learned that picking the correct process is the key to success with repetitive parts. One-offs are another matter—and I am as guilt as others as doing something for the shear fun and eduction factor.

Does this help John?
Hey Peter
Thanks for the detailed explanation- very interesting. I look forward to any tumbler pictures. Another interesting tool to buy! I see water jets are coming down. Would you want one of those?
 

CalgaryPT

Ultra Member
Vendor
Premium Member
Hey Peter
Thanks for the detailed explanation- very interesting. I look forward to any tumbler pictures. Another interesting tool to buy! I see water jets are coming down. Would you want one of those?

Ha ha. A tad out of my league even if I had the space. I do have a WaterPik though.
 

CalgaryPT

Ultra Member
Vendor
Premium Member
Update on JP Metal as of Jun 26, 2018. Called to have another run of parts cut - they are out of business. Sheriff seized their goods apparently and they are being auctioned off on site this PM. Website and phone numbers both down.

I've got three other places I am checking out though. One was Darren @ True Edge Metal Works. While they couldn't do my job, he was super helpful and gave me contact names and numbers of other companies. Pretty nice for a competing business. I'll have them quote on other jobs just because of this good customer service.
 
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