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Alternative To Fusion?

JohnnyTK

Active Member
I have used Fusion in the past, but would like to find an alternative. Not a fan of how they are changing user functions as time goes on. Experimental Aircraft Association with a membership provides to Solid Works Premium Education access for $40.00 U.S. per year. What other alternatives are available that I will be able transition to CAM, as I plan to purchase Taig CNC or something similar?
 
To the best of my knowledge, Fusion is one of the few CAD modelling packages that has integrated CAM as an add-on app. Most of the other apps are kind of standalone CAD. But 40$ for Solidworks is a no brainer, jump on that man. I cant speak for CAM packages but I know SW has rich export formats. Hopefully some guys on the forum can fill in this gap better than me. I'm not sure if Mach can import iges directly for example. What kind of CNC machine are you utilizing?

Geez, now you have me thinking I should join EAA. Do you have to actively be building an aircraft? Does quarter scale count? LOL
 
Thanks. Similarly my friend was involved in school robot competition & they had similar deal. In the States I heard thee is a discount for veterans. Non-commercial basically means you are using for the purpose agreed to through the organization. Its fully functional but the drawings are watermarked 'educational'. I got the impression they review these things annually, maybe its a call from local SW service provider or you have to sign a form that basically says you are who you say you are. When my buddies robot tenure ended, or similarly if students graduate, then that's the end of it. But all well worth it IMO if you are involved in this org & just have to provide a membership# (which they check).

This is way above my knowledge level but I think Sherline has propriety controllers / interface so their software? I might have CAD file conversion mixed up with G-code. If you hop over to CNC zone I'm sure there is a ton of knowledge on all fronts if you don't get insight here.

Out of curiosity, are you involved with building a homebuilt FS aircraft or a restoration? I'm legitimately thinking of volunteering to a restoration project one day, but probably not until I have more time. And more time to me means The Big R haha When I was a teenager I worked on the Sopwith Triplane project for a couple years when it was in the basement of the old planetarium. That was fun.
 
When I read this thread title I thought.... here we go again... another "Hydrogen technology" spammer LOL.
 
No I'm really just a newbie to machining, currently just trying to get my shop set up at my residence. Have owned a Taig and Sherline lathe and mill for a few years, but not fully engaged in the metal arts. Time to put all the Youtube you and book knowledge to use. Thinking mostly going to play in this scale, but might add a larger lathe and mill to the mix down the road.
 
I'll relay observations I have about CNC now that I've been dabbling in for a few years. These are just my observations and thoughts on this. I'm an amateur here so don't take this as gospel. If you have a Gcode interpreter CNC machine (and that's just about everything I've ever seen - Mach3, LinuxCNC, Centroid, HAAS, GRBL) then you need to generate the GCode program for the machine to actually do something useful. There are generally three ways to do that.

1. Write the gcode yourself. e.g. for milling G01 X1.0 Y-1.0 Z-1.0 F4.0. This means move the spindle from where you are now to cartesian coordinate 1,-1,-1 at a feed rate of 4 units per minute. e.g. in imperial inches and inches per minute. Superficially this is simple enough and I've done this lots and still do. It rapidly gets laborious and it's easy to make a mistake. The language goes back to the fifties (70 years old kids) when every bit and byte in a computer was super expensive, programs were encoded on paper tape for storage, debuggers were primitive. So the language is really dense just to keep it as condensed as possible and that makes it hard to read and remember. There are about 100-200 commands with all kinds of modes and such. Most commands start with G or M and then a number. G0 is move fast, G01 is move and remove material, G02 is carve a circle CW, G03 is carve a circle CCW, etc. As a guy with programming experience I find this incredibly archaic and surprising this isn't a lot better - it's been 70 years come on! But standards are standards...

Example: AnglePlate.txt I wrote this program by hand to drill 30 holes with a center drill and then a twist drill. It was just to learn how and to make a angle plate I'm using in the shop for. See https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.c...n-entire-day-drilling-6-holes.195/#post-15210 I actually used Excel to first generate a spreadsheet of coordinates and then formulas to spit out the program. That approach can actually be surprisingly effective. There is a video on youtube of a professional machinist doing this to make cam shafts for a boat steam engine on a 5 axis CNC mill.

2. So people got tired of approach #1 pretty quick and started writing programs to generate programs. Generally these programs that generate programs are called Wizards, conversational programming, VPS Visual Programming Systems or other fancy names - it's a simple question and answer setup e.g. on Mach 3 there is a facing wizard that asks questions about the size of the part, depth of cut, step over, RPM, feed rate and then it spits out a few dozen or more lines of GCODE that can then be run and face a part nicely. Lots of systems have these wizards like Mach 3 and any more modern controller HAAS, Siemens, etc. They don't all have them though and some of the ones that are out there are almost as bad as writing GCODE by hand. I was looking at a Taiwanese controller and it turned out to not have any wizards at all - if you bought that one then you are stuck with approach #1 or 3. Wizards can be annoying sometimes as they don't always remember what you did last time so you end up reentering values because the first time through had a mistake. In general though wizards are great and save a lot of effort. I do this all the time - the VPS system on the HAAS is really quite good.

3. What if the part is actually quite complicated? ie. you've got CAD drawing and there are loads of features that require milling, facing, drilling, slotting, threading and other operations ? Writing it by hand #1 would take days and days, #2 might work but you'd have to use lots of wizards and somehow bolt all the pieces together. What about a more sophisticated program that can handle all these features? Yup that's called CAM computer aided manufacturing. So CAM is the software that connects the CAD drawing/model to the tooling you want to use and generates all the GCode to execute the necessary steps. It's not that smart though you have to understand machining, and the tools to generate that feature, and basically tell the software all the details you would need to know to make the feature manually. Essentially there are a whole lot of wizards inside the CAM program and you need to know quite a bit about them to get them to do anything. If you've watched Youtuber NYC CNC John Saunders do his Fusion programming this is what I am talking about.

I've uploaded 1220.txt which is CAM generated program to make that metal etch folding tool (super small brake) I posted elsewhere on the site. you can see the program is thousands of lines long - typical CAM output. by the way the N100 prefixes on each line are the line numbers for the program steps. See https://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/threads/etch-fold-tool-small-brake.1807/#post-18467 for an explanation of what that program does.

So what about Fusion then? Well I like Fusion because the CAM is built in with the CAD. Invariably you discover things you want to change in the model so doing that is fairly easy as the two program areas (CAD and CAM) are side by side. Other CAM packages in some cases I understand are integrated within the CAD package but others are more stand alone. If it's not integrated then imagine you're in the CAM software and realize there is a mistake or change needed to the drawing. Ok, back to CAD, make the change, reexport the file, back to CAM, import, then what does the CAM software do? Update nicely hopefully. I'm not clear on how other packages like MasterCAM actually do this... good question to know before you commit to any one CAD and CAM system.

Tom O @Tom O uses another CAD/CAM package which is also integrated. Tom?

Any of these tools though have a steep learning curve. So when shopping for a package I think productivity is a key question. What works well for you? I also think all software is moving to a model where frequent changes to the way the software works is fairly typical. MS Office, Adobe illustrator and such, etc. I don't particularly like this either as sometimes it's just change when it does not help and requires a lot of work. I'm still not as productive with Excel when they reorganized everything on us. So for me I'll put up with Fusion changing their interface - it hasn't been too painful so far and the price has been pretty good. Bugs get fixed. so...

This was a bit of a monologue... hopefully it helps somewhat. Maybe this belongs over in the CNC area.
 

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Thanks @Janger , I know that explanation wasn’t for my benefit but definitely helped me understand Gcode etc better!


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I appreciate the explanation, helped me to have a better understanding of CNC. As I currently only partake in the manual arts. That is what I like about this community, always willing to share knowledge with others.
 
I used to use Rhino CAD back in the day. A lot of the CNC guys on the user forum talked about RhinoCam by MECSoft.
https://www.rhino3d.com/resources/8750
My recollection (might have it wrong) is the CAM engine or kernel was actually used by other CAM packages.

Even 'integrated' or 'plug-in' are kind of ambiguous word depending on the vendors. The CAM part may not actually be running in the background of CAD, it could mean just very controlled protocols &standards between the two as opposed to standalone applications.

I think SW users use CAMWorks 'inside' Solidworks. https://www.fisherunitech.com/software/cam
But I also hear MasterCam mentioned in SW circles. It seems to be mostly CAM with some CAD but can read the CAD files fine? I dunno. All this stuff is above my pay grade (literally & financially LOL). I keep saying I'll get into this stuff one day, but one day seems to be stuck in mid priority.
 
Well we were just using fusion but with the 4th axis we were told it wouldn’t do it so my son looked around and we bought Bobcad thinking we could set it up on our putters. Nope after a few offers back and forth we bought another seat ($500.00 US)for my laptop so as you can see fusion can be loaded on any putter and there is so much instruction on youtube for when your scratching the head but not much for BobCAD.
 
So I have finally settled on Onshape, one drawback is that your drawings can be seen by other users but can not be copied. A plus is that you do not have to download any software. Was featured in Home Shop Machinist Magazine. Will let you know as I progress.
 
If anyone does decide to go the Solidworks path, you can access some good training on Lynda.com. (I think it might be transfered over to Linkedin now. ) The trick is to get a free City of Calgary Library card. From the City of Calgary Library website you get free access to the Lynda.com training :)

Recommend starting with Solidworks 201? Essential Training. (?= there are a couple different year releases to choose from)
 
I started to play with Onshape, but started to take the Fusion tutorials and think that I will stick with it. Have some issues using my laptop as the graphic card is not supported but has worked fine so far for me.
 
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