Acetylene tank smallish

[PeterT]

I'm just web surfing & tire kicking at the moment looking at acetylene-air (as opposed to A-O) torch for silver soldering, heating things... smallish jobs I am probably wasting money on hardware store mapp cylinders.

If I was after a tank about this size (possibly called a B?) what would be the way to go? Purchase one? Rent/lease one? I see places like KMS fill them but I don't know the ropes about the tank itself. Sounds like active welders just bring them in & get filled on some kind of program & then no worries about certification expiry maybe?
https://www.kmstools.com/welders-22000000/gas-welding-equipment-22150000/

 

[YYCHM]

I hear ya about the mapp gas.

 

[DPittman]

The tank own/rent thing is a bit of a racket in my opinion and you often don't have a choice. I have that size of an acetylene tank and I own it as i believe there was no other choice for me at the time. While I "own" the tank , each time I need a refill, I simply exchange for an already filled tank. I dont recall what the initial cost was but I can look up what the last refill cost. Its always going up it seems ( but I guess so does everything else). I buy from Praxair in Lethbridge.

I know my size/volume of tank is an expensive way of buying gas but with the larger size tanks it was a rental agreement and the yearly rental was more expensive for me because I only use a small volume. I also like the little guys for the little space they occupy. I have my oxy/acetylene rig hanging on the wall.

 

[DavidR8]

KMS sells acetylene tanks from 10 cu ft to 145 cu ft.
I have 110 cu ft tanks for my MIG and TIG from KMS.
I’ve always received the same tank back as I bring in for fill.
I know this because I scratch my initials onto the flat area under the valve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Johnwa]

I got my mig tank back at KMS but I did get a different acetylene tank. I believe it takes several hours to fill an acetylene tank.

 

[Johnwa]

Every once in a while an ac-air plumbing torch and tank shows up on kijiji at a good price. There’s always the risk of tank ownership and expiry date though.

 

[DavidR8]

The tank own/rent thing is a bit of a racket in my opinion and you often don't have a choice. I have that size of an acetylene tank and I own it as i believe there was no other choice for me at the time. While I "own" the tank , each time I need a refill, I simply exchange for an already filled tank. I dont recall what the initial cost was but I can look up what the last refill cost. Its always going up it seems ( but I guess so does everything else). I buy from Praxair in Lethbridge.

I know my size/volume of tank is an expensive way of buying gas but with the larger size tanks it was a rental agreement and the yearly rental was more expensive for me because I only use a small volume. I also like the little guys for the little space they occupy. I have my oxy/acetylene rig hanging on the wall.

/slight thread hijack/
What size tanks do you have?
I'm thinking about one of these for when I need to bend larger stock.
https://www.kmstools.com/uniweld-oxy-acet-torch-set-141400

 

[Chicken lights]

Every once in a while an ac-air plumbing torch and tank shows up on kijiji at a good price. There’s always the risk of tank ownership and expiry date though.

I found my small propane tank at a scrap metal yard. Paid $5 for it, then had it certified and filled. I forget what the certification cost. I want to say the certs are good for 10 years?

I want to say there was usually a couple acetylene or oxygen tanks that people would bring in for scrap, that they would set aside for resale

 

[Johnwa]

For cutting and bending you can use oxy-propane. You just need different torch heads

 

[DPittman]

/slight thread hijack/
What size tanks do you have?
I'm thinking about one of these for when I need to bend larger stock.
https://www.kmstools.com/uniweld-oxy-acet-torch-set-141400

Those that you linked to look very similar to mine. I dont remember the actual volume of them but the acetylene tank is approximately 23" high at the valve and the oxygen one is about 4" higher.

You should be able to read the notes about when I last filled and how much it cost at the time.

 

[CalgaryPT]

The critical calculation with any rental tank relates to remaining volume. You only know this best after going through a tank or two, but at a certain point you are paying more to rent the tank than the cost of the gas left in it. This is especially common with the small tanks. A lot of people rent the first tank then decide to buy after that. Likely with a small tank it pays to buy it. But you have to separate the rental cost of the tank from the gas purchase, and compare that to the purchase price of the tank and how often you need to get it certified. A common scam is even if your (relatively) new tank is less than ten years old, and doesn't legally require recertification, a gas distributor may say, "I don't like the look of it," so you either have to buy a new one or pay for a recert. They can do this, and some do because they make more money from rentals.

 

[PeterT]

PT are you saying if you owned the tank & it was certified (company agreed to fill) you would pay for the net volume add? Or is is minimum flat fee kind of thing?
I'll phone around but just wondering, if you bought a new one is it good for 10 years or...?

 

[CalgaryPT]

PT are you saying if you owned the tank & it was certified (company agreed to fill) you would pay for the net volume add? Or is is minimum flat fee kind of thing?
I'll phone around but just wondering, if you bought a new one is it good for 10 years or...?

It's more of a mental thing for me. Say the tank costs 20 bucks a month to rent. At some point, if you are a slow consumer, you'll be paying more per month than the gas you have left in the tank. It makes me feel like I am throwing money away. Twenty years ago I had a kangaroo O/A kit. But I didn't use it much, maybe a few times a year. At the end I was just paying for rental every month for an almost empty cylinder. So I turned it in and bought my own. Two years later they refused to refill it (only a second fill). That turned me off buying ever again, which I think is their objective. A company, even if the cylinder is certified for ten years, can refuse to fill it if they suspect it is damaged. In my case they said it looked like it had taken a hit, but was in fact cosmetic paint damage only. It's been a long time since I owned my own tanks, but when I did they charged the same if the tank was empty or half-full. Maybe things have changed.

I downsized my tanks recently as it was getting too heavy for me to lift and companies like Praxair won't assist you anymore due to insurance (yet they let you use their lift, so this sounds like bunk).

Tanks have certification dates. It used to be 10 years, but I think it also varies based on pressure, tank material, and maybe gas itself.

Ask questions of course, but for me and the rate at which I drain my C25 and Argon tanks, I just suck up the rental costs.

 

[Tom O]

I bought mine from KMS getting the larger o2 tank made sense to me I already had a few sets of regulators to choose from.

 

[francist]

I guess it’s a good thing I don’t rent my argon tank. I just dug out my receipts and I bought it (the tank) with the SP135 from BOC in 2004 and I think I’ve only had it refilled once! I see a 2015 stamped into the neck so I’m guessing that’s the “best before” date. Might be time to take it in, I guess.

 

[DavidR8]

I just had a portable 75/25 tank filled at KMS and was told that tanks are certified for 10 years.

My impression from folks on welding forums is that the big suppliers tend to want you to lease their tanks for obvious reasons.
That said if I had it to do over again, I'd be buying tanks from Barry Hamel which is a local welding supplier. They do a purchase exchange program on slightly larger tanks; 125 cu ft vs 110 cu ft.
https://www.barryhamel.com/gases/cylinder-exchange-program/

 

[DavidR8]

I guess it’s a good thing I don’t rent my argon tank. I just dug out my receipts and I bought it (the tank) with the SP135 from BOC in 2004 and I think I’ve only had it refilled once! I see a 2015 stamped into the neck so I’m guessing that’s the “best before” date. Might be time to take it in, I guess.

I was told by KMS that tanks are hydro tested by Crest Fire Equipment.

 

[francist]

That looks to be true — even says so on their webpage!

 

[Dabbler]

I've owned my tanks for over 40 years. I've also been burned by Linde as a supplier, but the extra cost is small in the big scheme of things. I'll just never do business with Linde again.

I have 1 250 cu ft Argon tank, 1 110 cu ft 75/25 tank, one 30 cu ft Argon tank, 2 150 ish Acetylene tanks, and a 200 cu ft oxygen tank. All owned.

I get one tank fill perhaps every 5 years. Yes that means that I have at least 4 tanks that are out of certification. I figure it this way: A recert costs about 70-80 bucks, which is about 8 bucks per year.

Now there's a bunch of new things going on, and things keep evolving. so here's a few problems and how to get around them.

Acetylene: ARRG!
This is the really touchy one. In our area, and Ive been told it is the same in most areas: Acetylene is filled at a central location, (and for my suppliers it is in the U.S.). So I buy my bottle from a trusted supplier that I have a long term relationship with: the OxyPro on Barlow trail. Even when I have their bottle out of certification, they still exchange it, charge me about 50 bucks to recertify it, and give me a brand new one across the counter for a reasonable price. I understand that KMS has a similar program, but I haven't filled there ever.

Inert gasses: CO2 and Argon
When a supplier tries to bullshit you about damage, etc, they are trying to make you vulnerable. Stand up to them. Get the manager involved, or go to another supplier. Anyone can and will fill anyone's bottles - suppliers vary, but I've only had problems with Linde. I find the smaller gas suppliers to be more friendly toward hobbyists. KMS is also hobby oriented.

Oxygen
This is special because of the medical/commercial stuff. Ive had a supplier -once- refuse to fill for me. I just went elsewhere, and got it exchanged just fine. This is a place for the same kind of supplier as for acetylene. I now have my tanks sized so that I can just fill my oxygen and acetlyene at the same time. THe bigger invoice is a bit of an ouch, but it makes my supplier less touchy when dealing with a amateur.

Renting just doesn't make sense. I had a friend that rented an oxy/acetlyene set for 25 years - he used it 4 or 5 times and wehn he returned the tanks, they were almost full. Cost to rent? close to 1000 dollars. I've spent maybe 900 bucks in tanks total, including 3 recertifications. For 6 tanks. over 30+ years. Granted, most of my tanks were purchased towards the beginning of this time, and I've replaced 2 of them on fills and refilled one after recert.

Fact is, welding has an onging cost no matter how you do it. Recerts are cheap - about 3 years rental.

 

[PeterT]

I called OxyPro & here is what they said. B tank (40 CF) is $315 to buy which is full first time. You own it (kinda). Certification is ~5 yrs but as long as you are filling over time normal use, they will just grab another tank & carry on in perpetuity. Each acetylene fill is currently 95$. Some other adapter fitting gadget required for B size only, ~20$. He mentioned this is the common mode & size that customers like plumbers & HVAC guys employ where they do a bit of work every day but lugging the thing is an issue. Just guessing this might meet my anticipated requirements. Using Dabblers math, one could consider equivalent B tank cost to be (315-95)/5=44$ per year on a 5 year term equivalent, not including actual gas cost.

Next size tank up is 75 CF for $400. If its an upgrade from B, they will credit about $150.