5C collet D-bit Grinder

[PeterT]

I just checked. My D-bit YouTube index is now over 95 & counting. That is not including non-video links or useless unboxing or paint job vids which I pass over. Haven't gone through all of them yet but my gut feel is 90% of the real information is within 10 or so. Arguably less if you have a Asian unit vs a Deckel because there are differences.

Both fixtures allow you to spin, though one has stops, the other has none but allows for fore and aft movement as it rotates. This is for the flutes (sides of the endmill) to allow refreshing or custom sizing (smaller) off an exist endmill).

^ I think that's what I said? ^

 

[PeterT]

@Degen did you get these 'hook' wrenches in your Shars D-bit grinder? Presumably they are for the work head spindle (4-notch) lock nuts?

 

[Former Member]

Yes I got them with the Shars. As you likely know, 5C's because of the extra surface area and size do require a little extra effort to tighten or loosen on occasion to the get a grip of the part so good manufacturers supply them.

 

[PeterT]

Oh, are we talking the same thing? I assumed the hook wrenches were to engage the notched nuts which set bearing backlash in the spindle. ie. for dissassembly & reassembly of the work head spindle if required. And that regular 5C collet tightening was just hand tightening on the outer knurl? Maybe I misunderstood what they are kitting. You use the wrenches to tighten collet grip on stock? Is there a hole in the knurled wheel for the hook?

 

[Former Member]

Yes to both. Unfortunately grinding creates a fine dust of grit to help things bind . A little extra help can be needed.

 

[PeterT]

I received the Shars 5C work head & end mill spin fixture. They are definitely different than my Accusize equivalents. In almost all aspects the Shars is better quality. But my naïve assumption that I could do a relatively simple organ transplant to convert from R8 to 5C is maybe no so straightforward. They are actually quite different machines in many respects.

There is a whole bunch of story behind this involving all the components that make up the assembly. But turns out least effort is preserving the dovetail slide block under the Shars work head & mating that to the remainder of Accusize swivel assembly. The dovetails are different width, but the fix was pretty easy. I made a thinner gib strip. I was quite happy with how things were looking but once it all mounted up, it became obvious the new work head centerline will end up ~0.4" higher than than stock position. I'm actually not certain if that makes a difference grinding, but it may make a difference in certain setup orientations. Maybe limiting certain compound angle positions/swivels... I have not got that far yet. It would also be the case for the other (endmill spin) fixture since I'm mounting on the same dovetail slide.

Shars TCG


Accusize TCG


Franken TCG (photoshop)
Solid red would be normal center height. Dash red is where I would end up. A.


I think I need to step away for a bit for mental relief & take stock of where I'm at. As I have been taking things apart, examining the parts, figuring out what turns & clamps & detents on my own, I have been cleaning up & fixing things that basically did not function at all or poorly right out of the box. Those have been remedied/improved, so worst case scenario the machine will be much better & perfectly functional R8 machine than what was delivered to me. Whether it was worth it to buy the 5C components is still to be determined but its smelling like throwing good money after bad. Trouble is, I have not seen anyone else attempt this so I gues I'm the gunea pig.

 

[Former Member]

I received the Shars 5C work head & end mill spin fixture. They are definitely different than my Accusize equivalents. In almost all aspects the Shars is better quality. But my naïve assumption that I could do a relatively simple organ transplant to convert from R8 to 5C is maybe no so straightforward. They are actually quite different machines in many respects.

There is a whole bunch of story behind this involving all the components that make up the assembly. But turns out least effort is preserving the dovetail slide block under the Shars work head & mating that to the remainder of Accusize swivel assembly. The dovetails are different width, but the fix was pretty easy. I made a thinner gib strip. I was quite happy with how things were looking but once it all mounted up, it became obvious the new work head centerline will end up ~0.4" higher than than stock position. I'm actually not certain if that makes a difference grinding, but it may make a difference in certain setup orientations. Maybe limiting certain compound angle positions/swivels... I have not got that far yet. It would also be the case for the other (endmill spin) fixture since I'm mounting on the same dovetail slide.

Shars TCG
View attachment 38705

Accusize TCG
View attachment 38706

Franken TCG (photoshop)
Solid red would be normal center height. Dash red is where I would end up. A.
View attachment 38707

I think I need to step away for a bit for mental relief & take stock of where I'm at. As I have been taking things apart, examining the parts, figuring out what turns & clamps & detents on my own, I have been cleaning up & fixing things that basically did not function at all or poorly right out of the box. Those have been remedied/improved, so worst case scenario the machine will be much better & perfectly functional R8 machine than what was delivered to me. Whether it was worth it to buy the 5C components is still to be determined but its smelling like throwing good money after bad. Trouble is, I have not seen anyone else attempt this so I gues I'm the gunea pig.

Actually there are a few postings on this type of upgrade as most upgrade from the Deckel version of holder.

As to height difference I can believe that as the 5C is bigger than the R8 which is bigger that the Deckel original.

ASC365.com Toronto based is another source and has version version, best well....I went with the Shars, the worst well, not wasting my money. My understanding is they also sell components which well can be a good thing or bad.

 

[PeterT]

If you saved any links from similar D-bit conversions or mods, let me know. Always eager to learn from others experience.

I think I just need to get past buyers remorse & get on with it. The Shars model is more like what Renzetti & Stefan have. I recognize many features where mine is clearly different. Even so, those guys in particular did extensive fixes & mods to their machines. So far I am at what I'll call 'fixes' & likely will not take on the more extensive mods.

Actually this whole 5C vs R8 may be a self inflicted rabbit hole for me. I happen to have a 1/64" increment 5C collet set for regular machining so it seemed silly not to utilize that. When the Deckel U-collets became scarce & expensive, before the Asian reproduction clones came about which are available now, they 'North-Americanized' the TCG work heads to more common 5C & R8 collet systems. I ended up buying a set of metric R8's because they would serve dual use on my mill. They grip stock in the TCG perfectly fine & maybe I shoud have just left it at that. So I've kind of come full circle... burning cash along the way LOL.

 

[PeterT]

ASC365.com Toronto based is another source and has version

5C Universal Cutter Grinder Sharpener

Yes I saw that. Intriguing. Because its 5C its 'presumably' the same DNA as Shars, but hard to say for sure. Some features look the same, others look a bit different which makes me suspicious. Its $1000 CDN so if so would be good value. But it may also be yet another renegade variant & with that comes some risk of support, parts, or worse if they cobbled it together.

Shars is $1000USD + related customs/shipping fees but comes with most of tooling goodies. Accusize is $1700 with accessories, but as mentioned, I believe it to be an older model & lower QC. At least mine is. And I would honestly have to say their support & general knowledge of what they are selling is lacking.

Universal End Mill Cutter Drill Bit Grinder Sharpener

www.shars.com

 

[Former Member]

I've been to ASC365, bought my power feed from them. Lets just say "interesting place". Only good thing was they let me open the box and see the instruction before I bought it. I've had two issues with Accusize (one was my fault the other was a product fault) and service was beyond approach, but then again I can deal in person.

@PeterT yes I have 1/64 set from Accusize.

This is a new one that has me interested.

The other posts on the D-Bit where write ups on some other news groups don't remember which but detail with head upgrades on cheap, cheap chinese ones, buy the better replacement and away you go. BTW in more than one country.

 

[Former Member]

I am going to add, how he is doing the center cutting portion is wrong because he has the wrong wheel. I'll post a video when I do it.

 

[Former Member]

Here is a short clip and they actually show the correct cuts but very briefly without explanation. Dam advertising clips for products.

 

[PeterT]

Yes I've seen that Mark Presling video. I like most of his content as a model engineer, but he is not using the front left knob correctly. It is for limiting the fore-aft swing movement, not in/out feeding. He admits it in the comments section where others point it out. I've seen the exact same thing on another video. That's what happens when the instructions are on the thin side, people are forced to making guesses. There are other TCG resources but takes some time to wade through it all. I am certainly on the learning curve myself of cutting tool geometry & don't have much grinding to show for it yet. I have quite a few issues to sort out to make the machine functional, it was a bit overwhelming. But slowly starting to see the light of day. I'm not even sure if the 5C work heads will reside on it or not.

 

[Former Member]

Watch the advertising clip, so all you need but very thin.

 

[PeterT]

Yup, saw that one too. I am a bit of a Link Squirrel. They are even alphabetical LOL

 

[Former Member]

To add to your series

 

[PeterT]

Yup, saw it, thanks. Actually Stefan does a great job explaining the features & uses. The TCG comes up quite often through various other videos for custom cutters & what not.