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4140 crankshaft modifications - propeller hub build

phaxtris

(Ryan)
Premium Member
Premium Member
The little vw suffered a prop strike, and for the cost of a vw crankshaft im not willing to chance it on a mag particle inspection......so off i go crankshaft shopping, Yey!

Well, cranks are easy to get, a 4140 forged, balanced, counterweighted, nitrided, polished, shot peened and mag particle inspected crank was at my door only a few days after placing the order....however much to my dismay a stock aircooled crankshaft nose is straight, and myne is tapered for the prop hub....better check that conversion manual....yep, says a 3deg taper needs to be cut or ground into the crank nose for the hub....crap


i thought about farming this out to either an engine shop, or another member, but in the end i decided i would at least set up the old crank, dial it in, check to see if it was even a possibility with my equipment (the main concern was the lack of a steady rest, and being able to dial it in with just a tailstock), well seems i can get it dialed in at the tail stock end well under .001.....i guess its worth a go


Test run with the old crank, everything dials in just fine! ok game on
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Now that i know is possible not taking any chances, aligning the tail stock where it will be roughly supporting the nose of the crankshaft, trying to give myself the best chance of success

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aligning the compound with the dial indicator, seems that taper is not been perfectly cut, there is a variance of about .001 or more, although that could be from lapping the prop hub to fit, going with the average

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ohhhhhh, shiny! this is a bit of a nerve racking project, although not airplane expensive, this is still a 500$+ hunk of metal

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dialed in and ready to go with the trusty ol wnmg and 900rpm

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Problem....the lathe is not cutting a straight taper, it cuts and some how gets pushed out further making a hump...not sure whats going on here, moved to a different section of the compound...maybe there is a worn section, still doesnt want to cut that hump out...lock down the carriage, same thing, crap, i might need to farm this out, but first, lets try a button insert, i was going to do the final pass with a button anyhow. success! cut that little hump out like butter, maybe it was just a dull insert, or maybe this is a better insert ? who knows for sure, i did the rest of it with the button, and boy it leaves a nice finish. I tried to take a photo of this problem, but it just wouldnt show up, i made a little paint sketch

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and here it is after lapping it to the prop hub with some valve grinding compound, i should have take a picture of the finish, but oh boy! it was just as shiny as the journal next to it! first time i had any luck with a button insert
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some prussian blue to check the mating....looks pretty good to me
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and just a sanity check, this is not very accurate with no steady, but it will tell me if the hub face is miles out, looks to be ok, ill have to rig up something to get a better check, see if that flange needs to be machined in situ, so far looks to be ok

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Problem....the lathe is not cutting a straight taper, it cuts and some how gets pushed out further making a hump...

I've had this happen a few times too. It was caused by chuck jaws or tool holder screws not tight enough. Once it was a tailstock not tight enough.

It only happens when I have really big stuff in my lathe with lots of tool pressure. I've learned to be aggressive when locking down big stuff. Sharp tools help too.
 
I think the button insert was much sharper, it was newer, it also looks to have a different cutting edge geometry so that may have helped

also used the patent pending Makita power compound attachment, so it wasn't from erratic hand feeding

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and Made 100hrs ttl time yesterday (rented plane), and happened to be a guy taking pictures, caught me on final! the only picture i can tell its me flying i have of me flying

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How did you manage to have a prop strike?

hand prop, flooded, tied back + chocked, but not tied back close enough

when it finally kicked off, it had a little to much throttle in it, and because the tie back was not close enough it was able to rotate in the chocks right into the ground (tail dragger). shredded the prop, should have had the elevator tied back and the tie back much much closer, lesson learned.......unfortunately not to many people hand prop anymore so not very many people to teach those lessons before they happen, gladly no injuries, no property damage other than the prop, crank & my pride
 
What's the prop worth?

depends who makes it for you (wood), anywhere from 700-4000, prince, sensenich is at the upper end, culver, hoverhawk, meglin at the more affordable end

the bigger problem is the wait time, they are all custom made almost by hand, i got wait time quotes up into the 4 month+ range

i ended up ordering one from meglin in ukraine, the guy has been around a while, and has a presence on various forums and so long as military drone props don't get in front of my order (they come first) im hoping to see it in a month from now (ordered about 3 weeks ago), cost so far on that prop was 835cdn, i dont know if it will get hit with something at the border
 
hand prop, flooded, tied back + chocked, but not tied back close enough

when it finally kicked off, it had a little to much throttle in it, and because the tie back was not close enough it was able to rotate in the chocks right into the ground (tail dragger). shredded the prop, should have had the elevator tied back and the tie back much much closer, lesson learned.......unfortunately not to many people hand prop anymore so not very many people to teach those lessons before they happen, gladly no injuries, no property damage other than the prop, crank & my pride
Dual mags ? If so only prop on one. Don’t rely on one tie, in my parking spot I'd prop with both tie downs and a tail chain and rope, no slack any where. I also had that engine tuned so it would start and run on the idle, no throttle required. I wouldn't recommend trying to unflood an engine without someone competent in a control location. Wait if you have to.
Also we have all heard to always treat the prop like the mags are hot. I had a C 85 start with one mag hot and no more than a quarter inch of slow movement, certainly not expecting that but damn glad I had safe habits.
Glad to hear you're swapping cranks, wood prop and certified engine most likely fine but definitely right to not trust a VW crank.
Also glad no one was hurt.
 
Electronic ignition, I didn't realize it was flooded until after the incident, and in fact I did think "ahh screw it, I'll come back later", but obviously that's not what happened.

I have fired it up a dozen or so times previously, and it does fire on idle, but Iirc I primed it and pulled it through a few blades with a dead ignition, I think that is what flooded it, and just down hill from there


On a funny side note, the wedding anniversary is today, here is the wife's gift to me :D

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ahh bloody hell, i decided i should have the hub magnafluxed, there was a crack on the taper surface of the hub.........i was able to turn it out, but way to far to be able to machine the taper back into it

now i dont know what to do, i cant order one of the hubs (out of buisness), i could build the taper surface back up with tig and re-do the taper + keyway + flange surface, or try to find a 5" diameter billet and attempt to make a new one
 
After a nice morning rental flight (despite some cranky atc), i decided time to get working on this prop flange

propeller still isnt here yet, sigh...but at least its not my procrastination thats not holding things up

decided to scrap the new crank and order another new crank, going to go with an interference fit of .002, this is another common style of flange for the vw's, should be an easier job to make the flange with just a straight bore, and straight keyway

ive taken it up to .040 per pass (.08 diameter), .020 makes a big birds nest, .030 works pretty well, chips break about 1.5" long, .040 they are shorter yet still, work piece is only slightly warm, ive posted a video, do you guys think i should take a bigger bite ? machine doesn't seem to be groaning, 355rpm, .0083/rev, wnmg

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And the foot hills just north west of calgary

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