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Standard Modern lathe in Hamilton area
- Thread starter ShawnR
- Start date
Craig
Are those lathe dogs hanging on the wall (yellow) in this image?
Chipper5783
Super User
Love the unique paint scheme on the tailstock. Referring back to the previous discussion on where all the tailstocks seem to go?
Crankit
Well-Known Member
it does look like dogs but they look large, it could be the angle they are on?
Chipper....I agree, looks like the tailstock is a cousin to this machine!
Keen eye, your tail stock observation, makes me very suspicious it is NOT original for this machine. Someone with the same lathe would likely know better. Just saying.
I think they have a total of 6 of those lathes (if not the same “13 inch Series 2000“, then just a difference in model ie.1334). There are at least three green machines visible: two of them are 1334s.
They all have the same tail stock - even my 1340 & 1120 use the exact same unit; 100% interchangeable.
No, I don’t have extra tail stocks... lol
They all have the same tail stock - even my 1340 & 1120 use the exact same unit; 100% interchangeable.
No, I don’t have extra tail stocks... lol
How can lathes of different swings have the same tail stock?
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Because, in the case of the SM 1120, it actually swings 13”. The lathe bed geometry is also identical between a lot of the SM models. The biggest difference seems to be the type of pedestal and thus where the motor is located. Also, they did away with step pulleys on the larger center distance machines. They gave you a mechanical “belt selector”: basically a way to mechanically switch from low (small OD) sheave pulley drive to high (large OD) by means of a push-pull knob.
But, your observation is correct: different size swings (center heights) require a matching center height tail stock.
But, your observation is correct: different size swings (center heights) require a matching center height tail stock.
Brent H
Ultra Member
@YYCHobbyMachinist - my 1020 swings 11” and the 1230 swings 13”. SM upgraded features, dropped the 10 and 12 and went up to the 11 and 13 series 2000.
trlvn
Ultra Member
I always assumed that there would be a degree of fine-tuning to get the tailstock lined up to the headstock in both the vertical and side-to-side planes. A good quality lathe would need sub-thou tolerances on both those alignments, wouldn't it? Even tighter for a toolroom lathe?
Craig
I think most lathes have in/out (cross bed) TS adjustment. But vertical height is usually a function of how the base casting or interface is ideally scraped in. I think the rule of thumb is +0.001 vertically but as close to zero as you can get laterally. The up/down has less pronounced effect on turning a taper than in/out. I've heard they do this to 'allow for wear' but that seems like a whole lot of TS sliding over a lifetime & presumes the bed doesn't wear.
Swing might be a nominal thing. Sometimes its to an even inch. Sometimes a metric rounded. Sometimes it presumes gap bed with section removed which is then only for a limited distance from faceplate.
Swing might be a nominal thing. Sometimes its to an even inch. Sometimes a metric rounded. Sometimes it presumes gap bed with section removed which is then only for a limited distance from faceplate.
I think ideally, yes; practically??
If your height is within a couple of thou, you are good to go. Picture this: you get the TS perfectly aligned with the spindle center, TS quill fully retracted. What if the TS bore is out of alignment (nothing that anyone can do about that after it is machined at the factory)? Now you extend the TS quill to 3/4 of its maximum (say 3”). That center could be out by 5+thou, depending how bad the bore is out of alignment. What about the quill lock - put an indicator on it and tighten it. You’d be surprised how much the TS center can move.
Big question: does it really matter? I don’t think so (at least not as much as people believe it does). Just use the side adjust to correct any taper and away you go.
Oh, another thing: where along the lathe bed are you going to zero out the TS so that it is in perfect alignment with the HS spindle? It might be perfect 20” from the HS, but due to bed twist, wear, different TS lockdown force, etc, it will be out again anywhere else. So, again, I don’t worry too much about it.
I eyeball center the TS (using the alignment mark on the back) take a cut, measure for taper, adjust the TS until there is no taper (on subsequent cuts, if required) and call it good.
Yes, I made a ”dumbbell” test bar (which I even ground) because I wanted to see if it was faster than the eyeball method above. Using the test bar gets me closer right off the bat, but the final adjustment is still via actual cutting passes. So it actually takes longer using the bar than just eyeballing it.
Just my 2c on TS alignment.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
+1 on Robin's observations. I've said it before, but most tail stocks are around +/- 3 thou out on height, and some I've seen ave been much farther out in X. The last one I measured was out 10 thou, but that is very easily adjusted out.
My LeBlond is +3 thou, but I use a large boring head to adjust the height to be perfectly centred.
-- this is why using the tailstock to get a tool on centre is impractical. Precisely measure and make a custom height gauge for your own lathe. It will pay off very quickly.
My LeBlond is +3 thou, but I use a large boring head to adjust the height to be perfectly centred.
-- this is why using the tailstock to get a tool on centre is impractical. Precisely measure and make a custom height gauge for your own lathe. It will pay off very quickly.
trlvn
Ultra Member
I don't know what I was thinking re side-to-side alignment of the tailstock. Of course it is adjustable. Duh.
I did take a quick look on Youtube re alignment--Abom79 did a video. On his, the headstock can be pivoted via set screws and then locked down. After that, he used a very sketchy method of aligning the tailstock to the headstock that involved turning a piece of stock hanging nearly 12 inches out of the chuck. It shows a 2-3 thou taper which I think is just tool pressure deflecting the work. Anyway, he then shows a simple method of using a dial indicator to check the vertical and side-to-side alignment of the TS. Also, just by extending the tailstock ram, it shows if the ram is parallel to the bed! Begins about 10:40 in the video:
BTW, his tailstock is about 5 thous low to the headstock due to wear. He decides it is a job for another day to shim it.
Craig
I did take a quick look on Youtube re alignment--Abom79 did a video. On his, the headstock can be pivoted via set screws and then locked down. After that, he used a very sketchy method of aligning the tailstock to the headstock that involved turning a piece of stock hanging nearly 12 inches out of the chuck. It shows a 2-3 thou taper which I think is just tool pressure deflecting the work. Anyway, he then shows a simple method of using a dial indicator to check the vertical and side-to-side alignment of the TS. Also, just by extending the tailstock ram, it shows if the ram is parallel to the bed! Begins about 10:40 in the video:
BTW, his tailstock is about 5 thous low to the headstock due to wear. He decides it is a job for another day to shim it.
Craig
Brent H
Ultra Member
Hey Craig - our lathe at work needs to have the headstock aligned to the bed and it can be adjusted by screws in the back to turn it.
when I set up my Utilathe after taking it all apart I did a similar test and then had to shim one side to take out the taper on the big piece of stock I had extended out the chuck. Once that was dialed in I aligned the tailstock and do the same thing as @RobinHood with respect to checking the taper on critical diameters and adjusting the tailstock depending on where it is on the bed.
After I had everything good to go I shimmed my tailstock about 0.008” up to put it about 0.001” high (averaged across the 20” of bed travel). So far things are running well for accuracy.
when I set up my Utilathe after taking it all apart I did a similar test and then had to shim one side to take out the taper on the big piece of stock I had extended out the chuck. Once that was dialed in I aligned the tailstock and do the same thing as @RobinHood with respect to checking the taper on critical diameters and adjusting the tailstock depending on where it is on the bed.
After I had everything good to go I shimmed my tailstock about 0.008” up to put it about 0.001” high (averaged across the 20” of bed travel). So far things are running well for accuracy.
Good find, Craig. I was looking for a video/description of that method.
I think that procedure has merit in that it gives an idea of what is going on wrt the TS/HS relationship right at the point where the turned part and the extended TS quill meet. If you adjust the TS for zero error at that point (vertically & horizontally) then it is good for on that point. Anywhere else along the bed, things will be different in the real world because of the factors mentioned above (bed twist, wear, quill extension, quill lock, TS lock force, etc). How much it varies is a function of lathe quality and condition.
I think that procedure has merit in that it gives an idea of what is going on wrt the TS/HS relationship right at the point where the turned part and the extended TS quill meet. If you adjust the TS for zero error at that point (vertically & horizontally) then it is good for on that point. Anywhere else along the bed, things will be different in the real world because of the factors mentioned above (bed twist, wear, quill extension, quill lock, TS lock force, etc). How much it varies is a function of lathe quality and condition.