New Mill Advice

[neer724]

Hey Guys,

I spent the better half of today reading all of the post about mid-sized bench top milling machines. I want to upgrade my tiny cx605 to either the cx600 or cx601. My primary concern is the plastic gears in the 601\600. I have been reading about horror stories from some owners and other owners love their machines. I was looking at the belt drive Precision Mathews mills - but they seem to be out of stock on many of their mills and shipping to Canada would be cost prohibitive.

I need to be able to carry this down to my basement. My 15 year old son would be my helper so the CX601 is scaring me a bit with the 500+ pound weight. I would attempt to take either machine apart into smaller manageable pieces of course.

Do we have any other options in the GTA for milling machines other than the busy bee mills? Not interested in the PDM-30 style machine - they are just too big and bulky for my small workroom.

Thanks in advance....
Steve

 

[ThirtyOneDriver]

I have a CX611 - I don't know your price point, but I can have someone experienced give their opinion on my machine later this week. From what I've read, the CX611 is a copy of the Seig X3 (or the S3?), the Grizzly G0463 and others. It's 400lbs (https://www.manualslib.com/manual/62739/Grizzly-G0463.html) but I think there's enough information that the machine could be broken apart w/o negative impact - fridge dolly may be an alternative(?).

 

[deleted_user]

Hey Guys,

I spent the better half of today reading all of the post about mid-sized bench top milling machines. I want to upgrade my tiny cx605 to either the cx600 or cx601. My primary concern is the plastic gears in the 601\600. I have been reading about horror stories from some owners and other owners love their machines. I was looking at the belt drive Precision Mathews mills - but they seem to be out of stock on many of their mills and shipping to Canada would be cost prohibitive.

I need to be able to carry this down to my basement. My 15 year old son would be my helper so the CX601 is scaring me a bit with the 500+ pound weight. I would attempt to take either machine apart into smaller manageable pieces of course.

Do we have any other options in the GTA for milling machines other than the busy bee mills? Not interested in the PDM-30 style machine - they are just too big and bulky for my small workroom.

Thanks in advance....
Steve

Hey Steve,

Tell us more about your entry, the stairs to be descended, are the accessible directly from an outside door, or do you need to pass thru the house? Are they straight, winders, are there landings to be negotiated?


My brother and I bought our first mill thinking we wanted to be able to move if if required. We have too, multiple times. BUT a smaller mill is always a compromise. We have a CT129N. We're trying to find a CX601 or bigger. If you are careful you can negotiate a 601 into your basement in most cases.

Give us more details and we can help you break the move down into steps

 

[PeterT]

Always hard to judge peoples experience and/or factory variants as being indicative, but you can add this to the reading pile FWIW. Goes off on some verbal tangents but you can see a bit of what's under the hood. (No personal experience with the machine, I just noticed the post comes up now & again on another forum I frequent & if I recall the story, its Gears Part Deux).

CX601 Milling Machine

Brian: Here is what you need. Mini Shop Crane https://www.homemadetools.net/forum/mini-shop-crane-84270? Or it at least it looks interesting and for a person of your talents, I would suggest pneumatic tires to make it easier moving around the shop and out to the truck. The part I like is you...

www.homemodelenginemachinist.com

 

[trlvn]

Do we have any other options in the GTA for milling machines other than the busy bee mills?

There are several dealers that carry King Canada products. I *think* any one of those could get you anything that King has available:

MILLING / DRILLING MACHINES KING Canada - Power Tools, Woodworking and Metalworking Machines by King Canada

King Canada, metalworking, woodworking, parts, accessories, automotive, products, machines, tools, compressors and air tools, material handling, outdoor, indoor, equipment, generators, log splitters, power, bandsaw, drill press, dust collector

www.kingcanada.com

OTOH, these are still Asian-source machines and the relevant models likely have the same issue with nylon gears that you've seen elsewhere.

Are you aware that there are some kits offered to upgrade from the gear drive to a belt drive system? For instance:

Mini Mill Kit | Milling Machine Upgrade | LittleMachineShop

Get rid of noisy factory-installed gears with this mini mill kit. A machine upgrade, the easy-to-install set quiets your mini mill and improves its speed.

littlemachineshop.com

They say this fits the BusyBee CX605 among many others. USD $200.

Craig

 

[neer724]

Good Morning Guys,

Many Thanks for the replies...

I did manage to find a belt drive conversion kit that looks like it would fit the cx600:

G0704 Belt Drive Conversion Kit |

G0704 Belt Drive Conversion Kit

www.automationtechnologiesinc.com

or this - looks to be same:

MINIPRO® G0704 Belt Drive Conversion Kit

This kit offers higher spindle speeds on your BF20 style mill with a quiet and smooth operation. This kit maintains the quill function for those quick "drill press" jobs. No more broken intermediate gears. No more gear noise. Everything is bolt on, and can be installed inside an hour. - Offers...

www.minipro.com

Only problem is it costs 409US plus shipping - wow!!!!

In terms of getting this machine into my basement. So from the garage I would be bring it through the front door - which has 2 steps up - the distance from the garage to the front door is approx 30'. Next through the front hall about 20' to the basement stairs. My basement stairs have 3 steps down to a landing then 90 degree right turn to another 9 steps down.

I have experience bringing in very heavy items in through the front door. back in 2017 I bought a 300 gallon aquarium (8' x 24"x30") in - the tank alone weighted 600 pounds and was a beast to deal with. But I had it on flat bed rolling dollies and 8 guys to help me. I it was custom made - had it shipped to my brothers house in Michigan and I rented a 6 x 12 enclosed trailer and drove down and picked it up. The tank and stand came in two massive crates - the tank and stand and crates weighted in excess of 1000 pounds. The crazy part is the tank manufacturer offers free shipping within the US and wanted some ridiculous amount to ship to Canada. It was a good thing my brother has a forklift and a loading dock at his building. He picked it and put on the flatbed dolleys and we rolled it into the trailer. That was an adventure! Note - the aquarium is on the main floor - I didnt even try and bring it to the basement - it wouldn't fit down the stairs lol

Sorry back to the milling machine - I was thinking of taking it apart, and using a dolly to wheel it to the steps and then slowly rolling it down. My son and I can probably safely carry up to 200 pounds down the stairs, anything more than that would require a dolly or mechanical assist or more muscle - but the space is tight.

We carried our Myford ML7 down without any issues, we removed the motor, tail stock and it wasnt too bad.

In terms of price - currently BB is offering a free stand with the cx600 and its on sale at 2400. Tegs has the equivalent King machine for the same price without the stand. The warranty on the BB is 3 years while the King machine 1 or 2 years. However reading some of the BB warranty adventures of one member on here with his cx601 I wouldn't want to be lugging this thing back to BB for support.

I suppose I could order a precision mathews machine and ship to my brother in Michigan, but rather shop local than deal with hauling it back...

I just saw that tread about the cx601 that recently came up on auction - that would have been nice but not sure about buying a used machine like this given the electronics in there. At least with the Myford - its an old mechanical beast - no electronics - just an on-off switch

 

[neer724]

More research

I reached out to Matt at PM - he is out of stock on his PM-25 until the end of March. He does have the the PM-728VT in-stock (100% Taiwan made). It is a much better machine but with anything you get what you pay for. I asked for a quote with full shipping and fees - I tried to calculate it and if my numbers are correct it works out to around $6200 Canadian delivered to my door. At that price I could get a proper knee mill....

I did notice the King kc-20vs-2 machine pop-up in my searches. This also looks like a clone of the XC600 however the specs are different - in favor of the King machine.

The king comes with a 1hp DC motor and angular contact bearings whereas the BB only comes with a 3/4hp (some user complain the 3/4 is actually closer to 1/2 hp). The price for both machines are currently the same, however the BB comes with a free stand.

How is customer support for King? Some owners have good luck with BB and they seem to support their products. Can't find much on King?

Sorry for all the noob questions

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Aliva]

I have a 12x36 lathe and a 9x42 knee mill by King . I've never had an issue with either one so far. I did call King service once when I first the got the mill concerning a small issue it was resolved very quickly over the phone. They have a large parts depot in Montreal.

 

[neer724]

After closer inspection the King KC-20VS-2 is actually a bigger machine too compared to the CX600 - its dimensions more closely match the PM-25.

Just have to now weigh the pros and cons of King Vs BB:

King:
Bigger table - 27 x 7
More hp - 1hp DC
Angular Contact bearings ( not sure of the CX600 has them)
Control box mounted to the side of the machine
Same price as CX605
Only 2-year warranty

BB:
Includes free stand - the stand itself looks very low - I would probably just use the chip tray on my existing bench -so not so much a pro
Control box mount off a swing arm - not a huge fan of that.
local support (Mississauga and Concord) and I they have a phone number - cant seem to find a customer support phone number anywhere for king?
3-year warranty
extra $249 shipping to my garage - wonder if I can trade the stand in for the shipping (hmmmmm)

So I guess I have to see if that extra 1 year warranty on the CX605 and is better than more hp and a bigger table on the KC-20VS-2? I am probably going to convert it over to a belt drive if the gears strip....

KBC has them in-stock - getting a shipping quote from them - might call a friend who runs a shipping company and see if I can get good shipping rate to deliver it right to my basement and help lift it up on to the table (i.e. save my back )

Sorry for all the ramblings guys - my wife doesnt really care to hear me talk "shop" talk lol.....

Steve

PS -forgot to mention this - I downloaded the expanded parts diagram for both machines and they were almost identical! Which leads me to believe they come out of the same factory in China....so I assume, the overall fit and finish and quality would be the same....

 

[kevin.decelles]

My thoughts

I owned a CX600 for a couple of years (back when there were $1200). I liked it, it was a compact machine, tight (smooth x/y/z), and for light work it did great. I mostly machined aluminum with it, making parts for ATV/snow-mobile etc. I really liked the machine, and regret selling it some days. I ended up replacing this with a busy bee CT054 knee mill. Yes, another craftex machine.

I had to make one warranty claim with Busy Bee to fix the Z-axis readout (simple DRO). My unit had stopped working. My experience was 'meh', the people at the store in Calgary dutifully smiled and made the call out east where I got to talk to someone. They wanted me to bring the entire machine in to Calgary, I refused to bring the machine in, said the issue was localized to the display, I brought that piece in after they shipped a new one, total time was about 7 weeks (hence why I didn't want to bring the machine in).

Long story short..... is the 3yr warranty really valid? Is it real? I bought a lathe from Modern a couple years back and it allegedly came with 1 yr warranty, not sure if that is real either. Didn't have to make a call. Had I made the call, would they have serviced it? I have faith that they would have, and that if I ran into issues now, they would be willing to work it with me. I can't say that with BB. But I still buy their products here and there -- I just don't expect any warranty.

I've heard nothing but the opposite about Precision Matthews. The 'legend' and 'lore' of his service is enough for me to consider it seriously in the future. That, and other members have had the experience of brining decent-dollar machines over the border -- without major incident.

 

[neer724]

Many Thanks for your reply Kevin. I agree, after sales support sometimes is worth more than saving a few dollars...

Waiting to hear back from Matt...

 

[kevin.decelles]

If you do buy from KBC, I'd be interested in your experience pre/post-sales. I get their flyers all the time, we all buy the odd widget, but I don't know of anyone plunking down hard-money to buy machines. First off, shipping is a thing (if they were in Calgary we'd all probably know much more already). Are they simply a better managed/marketed Busy Bee? Or are to be taken seriously? Some of their prices make me laugh, but sometimes you have to pay up.

 

[Darren]

My Kent mill came from KBC back in 02ish. It was broken when I got it (x axis ballscrew was broken), and they were not interested in helping me with any parts or info about the unit. Kinda soured me on ever dealing with them again.

 

[LenVW]

Bought the KING KC-15VS in December 2021 from KBC In Mississauga.
I used be a machinist with Ex-Cell-O and spent four years producing carbide cartridges, boring bars and various tooling for production machining companies on a #602 knee mill.
The KING mill is nowhere near a #602, but, for my home shop I have found it to be well made and I chose it because it was the only 3/4hp mini-mill that was 110/1/60.
I just received a 1” twin carbide insert cutter and initial trials with Aluminum 6061-T6 and 1045 HRS have resulted in beautiful results.
Raj at KBC helped a lot to get me the mill in the pre-Christmas whoopla.
I did go directly to Accusize for the 1” twin carbide flycutter, KBC’s offering was 3x the price.

 

[SomeGuy]

Honestly I've been pretty impressed with KBC service, no bad experiences with them yet, unless you count a broken rivet in a drill index case (with drill bits in it) that clearly came loose in shipping, I didn't even bother asking them for replacement. Otherwise, they've reached out via email on a couple orders to ask if I was satisfied and gave me a decent discount coupon after my first order and such. All in all, if the price is right I have no problem ordering from them.

 

[LenVW]

Honestly I've been pretty impressed with KBC service, no bad experiences with them yet, unless you count a broken rivet in a drill index case (with drill bits in it) that clearly came loose in shipping, I didn't even bother asking them for replacement. Otherwise, they've reached out via email on a couple orders to ask if I was satisfied and gave me a decent discount coupon after my first order and such. All in all, if the price is right I have no problem ordering from them.

My weekly trips into the GTA take me close to KBC . . . if you need something picked up.
I am usually in the work mini-van and on one trip I brought my KING mill back to SW Kitchener.

 

[SomeGuy]

My weekly trips into the GTA take me close to KBC . . . if you need something picked up.
I am usually in the work mini-van and on one trip I brought my KING mill back to SW Kitchener.

Thanks for the heads up, will keep that in mind if I need something big the $12 shipping or free over whatever $ amount hasn't bothered too much for the little bits and bobs so far.

 

[neer724]

Thanks. Len!

I actually live in Mississauga and I am only 20 mins away from KBC. Might swing by today at lunch to talk to them and see of they have this on display....

 

[Susquatch]

back in 2017 I bought a 300 gallon aquarium (8' x 24"x30") in - the tank alone weighted 600 pounds

Holy CRAP!

I could put scuba gear on and swim in there with the fish!

Cost a lot less than flying to a coral reef someplace!

If you let me swim in your fish tank I'll drive down and help you move the mill!

Your wife will divorce you the next day......

 

[neer724]

Some times my wife wants to throw me in there to sleep with the fishes LOL