gerritv
Gerrit
Atlas shaper, Cincinnati T&C grinder etc etc etc
https://ontario.hibid.com/catalog/240801/feher-machine-shop-part-1/
https://ontario.hibid.com/catalog/240801/feher-machine-shop-part-1/
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Large machineshop auction in Sarnia
- Thread starter gerritv
- Start date
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Looks like there could be some good deals. This website is NOT generally used to sell such stuff so a lot of companies that spend big bucks will miss this auction ==> there could be a lot of deals.
hibid is great for "general" stuff - not stuff that is "specialized" i.e. lathe face plate can go for like $5 but a Mastercraft 4.5" grinder will fetch $20.
Remember there is some huge tax to pay in ON in addition to auctioneers fees - I think its like 13%. Premium is quite low at just 12.5%.
hibid is great for "general" stuff - not stuff that is "specialized" i.e. lathe face plate can go for like $5 but a Mastercraft 4.5" grinder will fetch $20.
Remember there is some huge tax to pay in ON in addition to auctioneers fees - I think its like 13%. Premium is quite low at just 12.5%.
I don't like hibid..... good user experience, but the auctions around here that I've followed have had what I can only describe as shill bidding.....
Hibid lets you see the bidding history, and although they obfuscate the ids, they don't obfuscate randomly, you still see the same 'encoded' value. So although you might be "Jim" in real life, and "*****Xyl" when you bid, the *****Xyl will continue to show up.
Pattern:
Auction opens...... one or two ids bid on 95% of the items for 1 - 2 dollars. Big ticket items get larger lure bids, and then over the period of a week it increases and the bids kick in, but very strategically -- same two or three ids. My buddy consigned items for a hibid auction and they asked him what he was looking to 'get' for it, and auto-magically his items get bid up..... just reserve bidding.
My pet peeve is that if you are going to have a reserve, just say so and put the value down. I would respect that more. There are some great arcticles online about the shill bidding, and about hibid in particular. They've been called out for sending 'max' bids to the auctioneer.
Does this stop me from bidding. No. If you know what your limit is, and can get it for 'less', then it is still a productive event. Using a 'max' bid is pretty much a guarantee to pay your max bid imho as i'm pretty sure they are monitoring it.
or maybe this is all in my head....... I'd welcome a socially distance beer with @Tom Kitta to discuss more.
Hibid lets you see the bidding history, and although they obfuscate the ids, they don't obfuscate randomly, you still see the same 'encoded' value. So although you might be "Jim" in real life, and "*****Xyl" when you bid, the *****Xyl will continue to show up.
Pattern:
Auction opens...... one or two ids bid on 95% of the items for 1 - 2 dollars. Big ticket items get larger lure bids, and then over the period of a week it increases and the bids kick in, but very strategically -- same two or three ids. My buddy consigned items for a hibid auction and they asked him what he was looking to 'get' for it, and auto-magically his items get bid up..... just reserve bidding.
My pet peeve is that if you are going to have a reserve, just say so and put the value down. I would respect that more. There are some great arcticles online about the shill bidding, and about hibid in particular. They've been called out for sending 'max' bids to the auctioneer.
Does this stop me from bidding. No. If you know what your limit is, and can get it for 'less', then it is still a productive event. Using a 'max' bid is pretty much a guarantee to pay your max bid imho as i'm pretty sure they are monitoring it.
or maybe this is all in my head....... I'd welcome a socially distance beer with @Tom Kitta to discuss more.
trlvn
Ultra Member
@kevin.decelles I've bought a number of things through hibid.com and...I don't know.
Re shill bidding. I did a quick search and did not find a creditable report alleging shill bidding. I did find a site where a few users were complaining but it seemed most of them were just complaining that they were duped by poor pictures and/or descriptions.
https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/hibid.com
I have seen a couple of auction items where the software clearly said that the reserve was not met. So they do have that feature. Seems that it is rarely used, however.
I have purchased items for less than my max bid. Re the prices running up, I think there are a lot of people out there with time on their hands due to the pandemic. It seems that a lot of people get "auction fever" and just have to "win". No matter what they have to pay.
I think you can sometimes see that in the bid history. For example, Person A sees a valuable item and puts in a max bid of, say, $50. They will be shown as the high bidder at the opening bid of, say, $5. Person B comes along and decides they want to win and enters the next increment, say $10. Auto bid then says to B that they were outbid and offers the next increment at $15. All the time, you'll see in the history that B bids EVERY SINGLE INCREMENT until they have outbid A. I read that to say that B's main motivation is to get past A. They may have no conception of the value of the item they're bidding on; they just want to beat the other bidder.
Nonetheless, the potential for shill bidding is there on hibid. Unless somebody on the inside confesses, I don't know how we would ever know. But the risk was always there at live auctions, too. There have been time where I've been bidding against somebody but can't see them. Maybe they are on the other edge of the crowd...or maybe the auctioneer is creating them out of thin air! Or maybe the guy I'm bidding against is a buddy or employee of the auctioneer. The best defence is to know the max you are willing to pay and to stick to it.
Craig
Re shill bidding. I did a quick search and did not find a creditable report alleging shill bidding. I did find a site where a few users were complaining but it seemed most of them were just complaining that they were duped by poor pictures and/or descriptions.
https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/hibid.com
I have seen a couple of auction items where the software clearly said that the reserve was not met. So they do have that feature. Seems that it is rarely used, however.
I have purchased items for less than my max bid. Re the prices running up, I think there are a lot of people out there with time on their hands due to the pandemic. It seems that a lot of people get "auction fever" and just have to "win". No matter what they have to pay.
I think you can sometimes see that in the bid history. For example, Person A sees a valuable item and puts in a max bid of, say, $50. They will be shown as the high bidder at the opening bid of, say, $5. Person B comes along and decides they want to win and enters the next increment, say $10. Auto bid then says to B that they were outbid and offers the next increment at $15. All the time, you'll see in the history that B bids EVERY SINGLE INCREMENT until they have outbid A. I read that to say that B's main motivation is to get past A. They may have no conception of the value of the item they're bidding on; they just want to beat the other bidder.
Nonetheless, the potential for shill bidding is there on hibid. Unless somebody on the inside confesses, I don't know how we would ever know. But the risk was always there at live auctions, too. There have been time where I've been bidding against somebody but can't see them. Maybe they are on the other edge of the crowd...or maybe the auctioneer is creating them out of thin air! Or maybe the guy I'm bidding against is a buddy or employee of the auctioneer. The best defence is to know the max you are willing to pay and to stick to it.
Craig
gerritv
Gerrit
Keep in mind that Hibid is a platform, it sells auction services to auctioneers. If there is shill bidding it is those auctioneers at fault, not Hibid.
I have had some great successes with auctions run by Hibid, my only complaint is the good stuff always 2-4 hours drive one way
Gerrit
I have had some great successes with auctions run by Hibid, my only complaint is the good stuff always 2-4 hours drive one way
Gerrit
Good commentary gents, and overall I agree -- the Hibid platform is really well done. I like the flow of it, ease of use etc.
But............rationally, you would expect to see someone 'win' something eventually. I just see the same two ids bidding on hundreds of items into the 90% value range, but never 'winning'. I started to randomly 'check' items in a 1000+ lot sale, and when you find the same ids on 6/10 or 8/10 items...... my lizard brain says this is not a coincidence -- not unless someone is very bored or this is a source of entertainment to someone.
I too have won with less than max bid but the item is usually something that 9/10 people wouldn't have a use for or don't know what it is. This brand of bidding I've described occurs mostly on items where there is some general interest from the 'real' public. The goal I believe is to 'blend' in and make it look real. From the last few sales I've seen, it would be a part-time job to bid as much as they were bidding.
And to be fair, this same practice happens at real auctions too. There are phantom bidders in every sale. The auctioneer is in control at all times..... he can point to a milk-can at the back fo the crowd and take a bid. My wife's grandfather ran an auction business and I've seen the game played -- albeit never to get more from a specific person but to draw to a hidden reserve.
Full disclosure -- this is innuendo, hearsay and gut-feel -- no proof and I'm making not formal accusation. But it feels like a texas hold-em game where one player has access to lots of mirrors and reflective surfaces.
Gotta run -- need to bid on something lol.
But............rationally, you would expect to see someone 'win' something eventually. I just see the same two ids bidding on hundreds of items into the 90% value range, but never 'winning'. I started to randomly 'check' items in a 1000+ lot sale, and when you find the same ids on 6/10 or 8/10 items...... my lizard brain says this is not a coincidence -- not unless someone is very bored or this is a source of entertainment to someone.
I too have won with less than max bid but the item is usually something that 9/10 people wouldn't have a use for or don't know what it is. This brand of bidding I've described occurs mostly on items where there is some general interest from the 'real' public. The goal I believe is to 'blend' in and make it look real. From the last few sales I've seen, it would be a part-time job to bid as much as they were bidding.
And to be fair, this same practice happens at real auctions too. There are phantom bidders in every sale. The auctioneer is in control at all times..... he can point to a milk-can at the back fo the crowd and take a bid. My wife's grandfather ran an auction business and I've seen the game played -- albeit never to get more from a specific person but to draw to a hidden reserve.
Full disclosure -- this is innuendo, hearsay and gut-feel -- no proof and I'm making not formal accusation. But it feels like a texas hold-em game where one player has access to lots of mirrors and reflective surfaces.
Gotta run -- need to bid on something lol.
Tom Kitta
Ultra Member
Person bidding to roughly 80% of the value or so on about 20% of items - sometimes - is ... me. I am simply looking for a deal. Not high bid auctions but industrial auctions - I have placed 100s of bids and have seen many others also place 100s of bids! There is always someone that bids more. I have lost dozens of lathes /mills / other machinery where its been just me and some other guy or gal for many bid iterations. Also if there are 10 items that are the same I have 10 saved and bid on all 10 trying to get 1 out of 10 for lowest price.
Also there is some entertainment value in Auctions
There is "core" group of bidder on every auction - you see their nicks all over the place.
I did notice there is "illegal" bidding going on - once in a while on expensive item secret "house" member ... wins! In this case the item is re-listed. This is usually for expensive items but not uber popular. For example large motors - or some machinery.
On live auctions you cannot look to eager to buy - or you may get trapped by someone trying to milk you.
Note that I only see this on more expensive stuff that is not very popular - you don't see it on say a welder that has like a dozen people fighting for it.
Since auctioneer is paid on the sale price from both parties - and in some case this is big $$$ - like over 30% (!) - if you have expensive but unpopular item X - and you know buyer B is the only one that needs it you can milk B for 10x the price. There does not need to be reserve price.
Another thing happens when a wood saw - multi head CNC worth new 100k - few years old sells for just few hundred CAD. Auctioneer will try to cancel the sale. It sells for so little as no one is making cabinets in Calgary and shipping it somewhere would cost $.
I once bought a big box of mostly new reamers - like 200 of them some in nominal sizes up to 1/2. I got it for like 30 USD. Well seller cancelled the auction like 10 seconds after it was over - I had no chance to pay.
Also there is some entertainment value in Auctions
There is "core" group of bidder on every auction - you see their nicks all over the place. I did notice there is "illegal" bidding going on - once in a while on expensive item secret "house" member ... wins! In this case the item is re-listed. This is usually for expensive items but not uber popular. For example large motors - or some machinery.
On live auctions you cannot look to eager to buy - or you may get trapped by someone trying to milk you.
Note that I only see this on more expensive stuff that is not very popular - you don't see it on say a welder that has like a dozen people fighting for it.
Since auctioneer is paid on the sale price from both parties - and in some case this is big $$$ - like over 30% (!) - if you have expensive but unpopular item X - and you know buyer B is the only one that needs it you can milk B for 10x the price. There does not need to be reserve price.
Another thing happens when a wood saw - multi head CNC worth new 100k - few years old sells for just few hundred CAD. Auctioneer will try to cancel the sale. It sells for so little as no one is making cabinets in Calgary and shipping it somewhere would cost $.
I once bought a big box of mostly new reamers - like 200 of them some in nominal sizes up to 1/2. I got it for like 30 USD. Well seller cancelled the auction like 10 seconds after it was over - I had no chance to pay.
gerritv
Gerrit
Contact the auctioneer is what I would do:
Great West Property Auctions
Address:4066 Brigden Rd., Petrolia, ON N0N 1R0
Phone:519-882-4554
Fax:519-882-4554
Email address:[email protected]
Website:www.greatwestteam.com/
Great West Property Auctions
Address:4066 Brigden Rd., Petrolia, ON N0N 1R0
Phone:519-882-4554
Fax:519-882-4554
Email address:[email protected]
Website:www.greatwestteam.com/