I know from previous threads on here that there are a few farmers on here so I think it's as good a place as any to ask a question. What is the proper name for this weed and is there any practical way to control it? It grows in damp areas in my fields. This year it is growing like crazy. We are having one of those summers where its damp all the time from fog but a lot of wells are going dry from lack of rain. When cutting with a bush hog it cuts into a thick fibrous mass that bogs the tractor down. 45 HP diesel. I don't have access to real roundup or at least not the real stuff that farmers use. Goats, sheep and cattle will not eat this stuff.
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A question for the farmers.
- Thread starter Upnorth
- Start date
Proxule
Ultra Member
Is roundup a common practice - I mean that's the last stuff I would ever consider touching my soil, garden, lawn - Not to mention running into the water table. But I grow a 10x60 long raised bed - not 200 acres!
Just curious, no more no less.
I would consider roundup to be an absolute last resort. I'm sort of hoping some one tells me to just keep tilling it until it dies off. My property used to be a farm and it runs along a former railroad bed. It's also adjacent to a farm. I'm pretty sure roundup or something worse has already been used here. The railway used to spray to kill brush.
Dan Dubeau
Ultra Member
Sickle mower? We have a lot of dog strangling vine here and it's very fibrous too. Hell on rotary trimmer head, but I bought a hedge trimmer head for my Stihl straight shaft, and it'll cut it and lay it down as fast as I can walk through it. Scaling that idea up to tractor size it might be worth a try? A bush hog doesn't have too trouble with it though, neither does a flail. Just the handhelds.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
The key is that it grows in damp areas, it looks like soft rush... juncus effusus.
Mowing regularly may suffice but it is perennial that propagates by both short rhizomes and seeds so it depends on how frequently the areas are overly damp. Field drainage may yield better long term control
I think that @TorontoBuilder has the right of it. Around here, we call it common rush. It likes wet feet and it propagates by seed and by rhizome. I have some on a few of the banks of my pond. Frequent mowing and drainage will control it over time.
Round-up (glyphosate) is available in a very low concentrate at hardware stores and garden centers. In my opinion, used properly, it is not as dangerous as the media would have you believe. Furthermore, it cannot pollute ground water because it is neutralized on soil contact. It is a perfect Herbicide for all weeds in the grass family and lots of others too. As herbicides go, round-up is probably the safest one you will ever encounter. I know it gets lots of bad press coverage and there have been some sensational court cases. But in my opinion, used properly it isn't as scary as others and it is harmless to pollinators (bees), birds, reptiles, and animals.
It is always better to be safe than sorry though. So if I were you, I would hire a professional - perhaps a local farmer - to get rid of it for you. Farmers like me have to be trained, tested every 3 years, and licensed to buy and use commercial strength herbicides. A pro will come in once and it will be gone, and you will not have an environmental mess to live with afterward.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
Yes you can use chemicals... but if it the cause of an outbreak was abnormally wet spring (as I've had around here anyway) you may not need chemicals if you knock is back this summer and fall and then jump on the first signs next spring with mowing. Maybe find a local goat herder who can put a herd in your fields for a few days at a time would be a great solution.
As someone with autoimmune issues and environmental sensitivities, I'll always try the non-chemical solution first.
It's always there even in dry years. It just spreads during the wet or damp years. I have yet to see any animal that will eat this stuff. They all eat around it, even the goats. I do plan on eventually buying some goats to eat the brush around the ponds that I can't get at with the tractor.
Dabbler
ersatz engineer
@Upnorth It would seem that digging it up is impractical and do more damage to your wetland (dampland?) than a chemical method. Rhizome propagating plants can come back from remarkably few missed shoots.
Perhaps a mixed approach: mow now, mow again when they start to reappear, then use spot roundup as the shoots appear over the fall.
If you choose the minimum chemical way, you will have to repeat again in the spring (and maybe neutralize the benefit of minimum herbicide, and adding more work)
there are no easy answers for pesky weeds.
Perhaps a mixed approach: mow now, mow again when they start to reappear, then use spot roundup as the shoots appear over the fall.
If you choose the minimum chemical way, you will have to repeat again in the spring (and maybe neutralize the benefit of minimum herbicide, and adding more work)
there are no easy answers for pesky weeds.
DPittman
Ultra Member
Just a couple of comments...
@Susquatch is correct in his comments about RoundUp (glyphosate) in regards to it being genrally safe to use . "Information" that is commonly passed around in media and internet circles often has very little science or factual information in it, but rather it is misleading, incomplete and is often times totally incorrect. Consequently, the general public has a very poor understanding of pesticides and their use. If you do not feel comfortable with your knowledge about pesticide use, please don't use them, that puts those of us that do know how to use them safely and correctly at risk of loosing a valuable AND environmentally positive tool.
Glyphosate can be a safe and good tool to use, but as with all control options, it needs to be one of many tools employed and if it is used exclusively or improperly, problems will persist, or often is the case, problems will multiply.
Glyphosate is a non selective herbicide. That means it generally kills all plants. It also leaves no chemical residue to provide lasting control. It is also relatively cheap. It generally performs very well on plants in the grass family.
The issue you may have after using glyphosate (assuming you get good intial control) is what plant population is going to replace the weed you just took out? More of the same? (often is the case) Or do you have a plan and method to ensure the desired replacment plant will be successful? Why was the unwanted weed growing where it was? The environment was right for it but is the environment right for the desired plant? (Soil, moisture, nutrients, cultural methods used, etc, etc,)
A selective herbicide is sometimes a better option, but often the choices are very limited, performance marginal and/or very expensive.
If the area is small (under 1/2 acre) I'd opt for cultural control methods, if the area is large and widespread, then chemical options may be a better fit.
@Susquatch is correct in his comments about RoundUp (glyphosate) in regards to it being genrally safe to use . "Information" that is commonly passed around in media and internet circles often has very little science or factual information in it, but rather it is misleading, incomplete and is often times totally incorrect. Consequently, the general public has a very poor understanding of pesticides and their use. If you do not feel comfortable with your knowledge about pesticide use, please don't use them, that puts those of us that do know how to use them safely and correctly at risk of loosing a valuable AND environmentally positive tool.
Glyphosate can be a safe and good tool to use, but as with all control options, it needs to be one of many tools employed and if it is used exclusively or improperly, problems will persist, or often is the case, problems will multiply.
Glyphosate is a non selective herbicide. That means it generally kills all plants. It also leaves no chemical residue to provide lasting control. It is also relatively cheap. It generally performs very well on plants in the grass family.
The issue you may have after using glyphosate (assuming you get good intial control) is what plant population is going to replace the weed you just took out? More of the same? (often is the case) Or do you have a plan and method to ensure the desired replacment plant will be successful? Why was the unwanted weed growing where it was? The environment was right for it but is the environment right for the desired plant? (Soil, moisture, nutrients, cultural methods used, etc, etc,)
A selective herbicide is sometimes a better option, but often the choices are very limited, performance marginal and/or very expensive.
If the area is small (under 1/2 acre) I'd opt for cultural control methods, if the area is large and widespread, then chemical options may be a better fit.
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Not sure why, but the reply option was more or less, not allowed over the last while, for me.
Had thought I was being blocked entirely.
Glyphosates have a life span in the environment, that measure in minutes, as opposed, say, to such herbicides as the likes of 2-4-D, that have a VERY long and residual effect. 2-4-D, is sold under the name of Grazon, a broad-leaf (ie: anything that is not grasses) Herbicide that is accepted as being able to be sprayed in places that livestock is able to be grazed upon immediately after it has been sprayed upon.
If it came right down to it, the correct and reasonable answer may be to go around, hand applying the Round-Up by means of a sponge or similar applicator, so as to kill off the weed that you selected to be done away with. At least one of the folks that were essentially the founders of Organic Farming, was on the record as saying, that if you dug around any Organic Farm, you would eventually find a locked container with Round-Up, in it! Glyphosates essentially interfere with a plant's ability to photosynthesize, so they keep the plant from being able to stay alive via sunshine.
It would pay out, to consult with a knowledgeable person from the Herbicide industry, as there may actually be a targeted product that actually deals 'only' with the weed (reed) that you wish to have control of. There are a LOT of selective herbicides.
Not sayin' that Round-Up is gonna be the only solution, just sayin' that Round-Up may actually be a GOOD solution, if properly applied!
It's not ALL about burning the whole environment down to ground level!
Had thought I was being blocked entirely.
Glyphosates have a life span in the environment, that measure in minutes, as opposed, say, to such herbicides as the likes of 2-4-D, that have a VERY long and residual effect. 2-4-D, is sold under the name of Grazon, a broad-leaf (ie: anything that is not grasses) Herbicide that is accepted as being able to be sprayed in places that livestock is able to be grazed upon immediately after it has been sprayed upon.
If it came right down to it, the correct and reasonable answer may be to go around, hand applying the Round-Up by means of a sponge or similar applicator, so as to kill off the weed that you selected to be done away with. At least one of the folks that were essentially the founders of Organic Farming, was on the record as saying, that if you dug around any Organic Farm, you would eventually find a locked container with Round-Up, in it! Glyphosates essentially interfere with a plant's ability to photosynthesize, so they keep the plant from being able to stay alive via sunshine.
It would pay out, to consult with a knowledgeable person from the Herbicide industry, as there may actually be a targeted product that actually deals 'only' with the weed (reed) that you wish to have control of. There are a LOT of selective herbicides.
Not sayin' that Round-Up is gonna be the only solution, just sayin' that Round-Up may actually be a GOOD solution, if properly applied!
It's not ALL about burning the whole environment down to ground level!
There are no blocks on your account.
Your reply attempt actually shows up at post #10 above. You must be having a computer problem. Once in a while reply doesn't work properly for me either.
This is a very good recommendation. My mother used to use a bucket of roundup and a handheld sponge to selectively kill weeds in her flower gardens. Too slow for me as a farmer though. Nonetheless, there are farming applicators that use hanging wipes to selectively kill tall weeds. I've never used one. I have used cardboard or an upside down bottomless bucket as a spray shield.
DPittman
Ultra Member
Some inaccuracies here that need to be corrected. To say 2,4-D is sold under the trade name Grazon is misleading. Grazon is a combination of two active ingredients, one of which is 2,4-D. 2,4-D is used in combination with many herbicides and can be purchased separately. The long residual control provided by the herbicide Grazon comes from picloram NOT 2,4-D. 2,4-D does NOT have long residual control properties at rates that are usually used.
Lactating dairy animals should not be allowed to feed on fields that have had Grazon applied to them for 7 days after application.
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FatherWes
Wes
I have discovered a useful tool for identifying weeds. Take a photo and if you have the Google App, you can do an image search using your photo. If you’ve got a good photo, you can get an immediate response. I’m sure it can and does mis-identify, but it shows pictures of of the potential matches so you can verify. If I get a poor match, it’s usually because I provided a poor photo.
Here’s a screenshot of Google’s results for your first photo…
Here’s a screenshot of Google’s results for your first photo…
The topic of peticide/herbicide is a very touchy subject, from people that know very little to others that do know what the effects of some of the products are and how to use them. Mix in the manufacturers, sales people and so on, it can get MESSY.
I remember a sales person saying a product was so safe to use, that you could drink a glass full and it would not hurt you, we said do it now! Wouldn't do it, hmm, we were not impressed!
I have read many reports and results about glyphosate, this leaves me unsure about it and many other products.
Anyway, onwards, in many ways how we deal, handle, control weeds, and please note weeds are plants that are growing where PEOPLE do not want them.
I am going to go on about plants that spread by seeds, how you handle the plant, and when you handle the plant can make a difference. Many plants that are left to form seed heads are being left to late to deal with, once the seeds have started to form, the seeds are in a shell that that is very hard to get through. Sprays often will not do anything to a seed, therefore don't let the plant get to the seed growing stage, cut it before the seeds start growing. In many cases even a immature seed can grow and reseed, so cutting a plant with seed heads, pods etc. and spreading it, mower etc. just spreads and reseeds an area. Combines are great for this, if it doesn't go into the grain tank it is being spread back into the field, generly covering a larger area.
Many seeds can stay in the soil for many years, waiting for the right conditions for growing, soil depth, moisture, heat, lack of other plants. Some plants that often come to mind in these respects, some pines will not grow until a fire has gone over the area first, another, wild mustard, often doesn't grow until soil is disturbed, and mustard has not been planted in known history. Wild oats, well, can have 40 bushels to the acre, just in the ground! Ready to grow! They have a waxy, oily covering protecting the seed, no idea how long the seed can stay in the ground, safe.
An old uncle told me his father would watch his fields of grain for weeds and cut the weed patchs down with a horse drawn mower, then pick them up from the field and use for feed, the trick was to cycle them through the livestock before seeds started forming. Many seeds can go through a gut without damage, and then grow in fertilizer, crush them first!
Anyway, another of my long stories.
I remember a sales person saying a product was so safe to use, that you could drink a glass full and it would not hurt you, we said do it now! Wouldn't do it, hmm, we were not impressed!
I have read many reports and results about glyphosate, this leaves me unsure about it and many other products.
Anyway, onwards, in many ways how we deal, handle, control weeds, and please note weeds are plants that are growing where PEOPLE do not want them.
I am going to go on about plants that spread by seeds, how you handle the plant, and when you handle the plant can make a difference. Many plants that are left to form seed heads are being left to late to deal with, once the seeds have started to form, the seeds are in a shell that that is very hard to get through. Sprays often will not do anything to a seed, therefore don't let the plant get to the seed growing stage, cut it before the seeds start growing. In many cases even a immature seed can grow and reseed, so cutting a plant with seed heads, pods etc. and spreading it, mower etc. just spreads and reseeds an area. Combines are great for this, if it doesn't go into the grain tank it is being spread back into the field, generly covering a larger area.
Many seeds can stay in the soil for many years, waiting for the right conditions for growing, soil depth, moisture, heat, lack of other plants. Some plants that often come to mind in these respects, some pines will not grow until a fire has gone over the area first, another, wild mustard, often doesn't grow until soil is disturbed, and mustard has not been planted in known history. Wild oats, well, can have 40 bushels to the acre, just in the ground! Ready to grow! They have a waxy, oily covering protecting the seed, no idea how long the seed can stay in the ground, safe.
An old uncle told me his father would watch his fields of grain for weeds and cut the weed patchs down with a horse drawn mower, then pick them up from the field and use for feed, the trick was to cycle them through the livestock before seeds started forming. Many seeds can go through a gut without damage, and then grow in fertilizer, crush them first!
Anyway, another of my long stories.
TorontoBuilder
Ultra Member
To think about all those years in University and spending time outdoors that I wasted
So true.
I'd never describe myself as an expert, but I've learned a crap load in my time.
Some other weed wisdoms while we are on the subject.
One of my most hated weeds is Velvet Leaf. Its seeds will live in the ground for 50 years. They germinate and grow whenever it rains. They have a tap root that will reach the water table in days. They can grow 6ft high and produce a hundred seeds. They are easily killed with roundup but since they germinate all summer long, you can't kill them all unless you spray once a week. The guy who farmed my land before me didn't care. So I end up walking my fields regularly and pulling them by hand. I hate Velvet Leaf.
Fleabane - a rather ordinary weed easily controlled by moderate tillage. Unfortunately, because of improper use of round-up, a local strain of it has developed roundup resistance. Now entire fields are covered in it. One plant produces thousands of tiny airborne seeds. A bad lazy neighbour becomes a hated neighbour. Annual tilling and stronger herbicides are required. I hate Fleabane.
Russian Thistles. A very tough nasty weed that can totally infest entire fields. This is one that spreads by combining at harvest time and is also airborne. It is fairly resistant to Roundup but 2-4D works well. I worry that it will develop resistance in the near future. I hate Russian Thistle.
Curly Dock - a very tough ugly weed with a tap root to China. It can be killed with Roundup and 2-4d when it is small. If left too long, you only kill the top and the root grows a new plant. If you plow living plants, you cut up one root and grow 10 more. The seeds are moderately airborne but usually just grow a local patch of it. I use a mix of Eragon, Roundup, and 2-4d in the spring and then pull what survives after waiting for a good rainfall.
Ragweed & Giant Ragweed - Yuk. Just Yuk. Damn neighbours won't control it. It has relatively large seeds spread by birds and harvest equipment. Easily controlled with 2-4d and Roundup (for now). But I expect resistant varieties are just around the corner.
This last point is important. Weeds quickly develop resistance when they are only partially controlled. Surviving plants interbreed and resistance develops fast. It is nature's way. Therefore it is very important to kill it fast and kill all of it so resistant varieties cannot get established. Multimodal herbicides are preferred as are Herbicide rotations. If you decide to kill a weed with a Herbicide - kill it! Don't just be happy with the lower population left after a major kill. It is particularly important to kill all remaining weeds.
Glyphosate may it may not kill your specific plant.
I used it on my farm in the beginning then turned away from it to preserve soil heath. Neat and tidy manicured.. looks good vs. Optimal soil health.
It destroys eveything in the soil horizon. Micorhyzie fungus, bacteria etc promotes transfer of nutrients and minerals to the plant... gp. kills it all.
A little messy but so what
The grass and weeds do nothing to effect the grape vines but support beneficial insects... helps stop moisture evaporation. Avoids the use of insecticides.. Eventually it all rots down.. self composting.. building up the humus layer.
There is definitely a very noticable difference to the fruit quality and taste that customers happily paid the premium for. I dont care about organic or not, the $$ makes me happy.
the proof is in the wine. $40-60/ bottle
This year we reluctantly used only 1.5 liter glyphosate over 3.5 acres for the first time in 14 yrs to strategically target problem alfalfa within the rows.
I used it on my farm in the beginning then turned away from it to preserve soil heath. Neat and tidy manicured.. looks good vs. Optimal soil health.
It destroys eveything in the soil horizon. Micorhyzie fungus, bacteria etc promotes transfer of nutrients and minerals to the plant... gp. kills it all.
A little messy but so what
The grass and weeds do nothing to effect the grape vines but support beneficial insects... helps stop moisture evaporation. Avoids the use of insecticides.. Eventually it all rots down.. self composting.. building up the humus layer.
There is definitely a very noticable difference to the fruit quality and taste that customers happily paid the premium for. I dont care about organic or not, the $$ makes me happy.
the proof is in the wine. $40-60/ bottle
This year we reluctantly used only 1.5 liter glyphosate over 3.5 acres for the first time in 14 yrs to strategically target problem alfalfa within the rows.