What to look for in a Welder?

[Hruul]

Hello All,

I am looking at finally getting a welder and after going back and forth on a MIG or lower cost multi-process I have decided to get a dedicated MIG (solid and flux core). I have taken a few weekend warrior welding classes, but am still very must a novice. My thought was to spend money on a dedicated single process welder and then if I find I use it a lot or want to expand to other types of welding in the future I would get a TIG/ARC combination. I don't plan to weld a lot at this time but there are a few projects in the past that a welder would have been helpful for that I worked around and a couple coming up that I really want a welder for. I only plan to weld steel at this time and nothing super thick (up to 1/4" most likely). Would like to be able to build this as a skill, but not planning to ever make money at it.

I would appreciate it if those users with welders could tell me the following: 1. What you have. 2. What you like about it. 3. What you don't like about it. 4. If you were to buy the same welding process machine (ie. MIG, ARC, TIG) again what you would consider a must have and what you could do with out.

Thanks in advance

Lee

 

[DavidR8]

1. What you have. 2. What you like about it. 3. What you don't like about it. 4. If you were to buy the same welding process machine (ie. MIG, ARC, TIG) again what you would consider a must have and what you could do with out.

Thanks in advance

Lee

1. What you have.
MIG - Millermatic 130
TIG - Primeweld 225
2. What you like about it.
MIG it’s 110v so I can run it anywhere. It’s stone reliable and consumables are readily available.
TIG - analog controls, CK Worldwide torch, 225 amps.
3. What you don't like about it.
MIG - 110v means anything more than 3/16” is pushing it. The controls are ultra basic.
TIG - the fans are always on and they are loud.
4. If you were to buy the same welding process machine (ie. MIG, ARC, TIG) again what you would consider a must have and what you could do with out.
MIG - I’d like something with more flexibility in voltage and wire feed speed. And 220v.

 

[cuslog]

I currently have a small Oxy /Acetelyne set and a Miller Econo-Tig which has stick capability as well.
I like welding in general, I've had all types, Oxy /Acetylene, Mig, stick and Tig. Mig is probably the easiest to learn, Tig the hardest.
The thing I dis-like the most is splatter, flux cleanup and smoke - you get the most of that with stick.
Tig is the cleanest and quietest, easy to switch from mild steel to stainless to aluminum. My econo-Tig is only 150 amps and 20% duty cycle - there's been a couple or 3 times in 20 years that I've wished I had a bigger one. Tig is probably one of the slowest and more suited to small projects. They all have their place and strengths and weaknesses.
I'll guess and say mig is probably the most common, small ones for body shop type work, big ones for production Fab shop work. Stick for big, heavy duty fab work where lots of penetration is needed.
Tig would be seen more in a shop fabbing thin aluminum fuel tanks or stainless tables for restaurants or hospitals.
Buying again, I'd probably get a bit bigger Tig, at least 200 Amp and more than 20% duty cycle.
They all have their place, just depends on what you want to do with it.

 

[Dabbler]

Cuslog, we should compare notes some time!

HAVE:
I have an Econo-TIG by Miller, and Millermatic 250 MIG ( a transformer, bare -bones 250A welder) and a Clarkeweld (European made) 80 A 110 V MIG welder, set up for doing aluminum only.
I also have an oxy/acetelyene set, but I seldom do welding with it.

LIKE:
Duty cycle. availability of repair parts and supplies. Quality of construction. Stability of arc.

DISLIKE:
most of the newer welders have a lot of bells and whistles that I don't have. Some of which I wish I did have. I dread how to repair them when they die, however, as mine will outlast me and my kids.

ON buying and doing with/without:
Tricky subject - If you are only doing steel, and aren't going to weld for more than 50 hours per year - get an autosetup MIG only welder. You look up on a chart what you are welding, endter a code, and the feed settings and voltage is set for you in one step. Saves a huge amount of experimentation.

If you need more amperage and/or doing complex welding on thicker materials, then you are better off with an older, more capable transformer machine. Every company from everlast to esab, loncoln to miller has had their share of horror stories about the inverter welders. BEFORE I GET FLAMED: they all make good welders. The newer inverter machines do waaay better than the original ones. The replacement for the millermatic 252 is said to be very easy to operate and gives excellent welds.

 

[YYCHM]

This has been a disappointment...

https://kickinghorsewelders.ca/index.php?main_page=product_machines_info&cPath=133&products_id=440

But I also need to state that I haven't had a stitch of formal instruction.

 

[DavidR8]

This has been a disappointment...

https://kickinghorsewelders.ca/index.php?main_page=product_machines_info&cPath=133&products_id=440

But I also need to state that I haven't had a stitch of formal instruction.

I probably ran 30’ of beads to get the hang of my Millermatic.
Watch Jody Collier’s MiG basics on Welding Tips and Tricks to get a good sense of what’s going on.

 

[Brent H]

I have an Everlast 211 MTS welder. Does, stick, MIG and TIG. - had for 3 years. MIG has been great - no issues. Stick has performed well with 7018 and 6013. The TIG I have not fully explored but worked fine during some “trial tests”. Bought a spool gun: works great for aluminum.

cons: not an AC wave support welder so the need for spool gun. - although, ....

so far has been great for my welding

 

[Tom Kitta]

I have Lincoln Invertec 350 multi process and Everlast 200 DX.

For dedicated MIG I would get either Miller or Lincoln on auction - something in the 250 range. Should not be more then around 800 CAD max.

As to my welders I like the TIG abilities of the Everlast through on some aluminum work 200 amps is not going too far (about 1/4" on flat and about 3/16 on T joint) I like the raw power of the Invertec - it feels great to stick weld at almost 300 amps - I need to get 1/4 inch electrodes to finally go close to 400. I also need to get smaller gauging electrodes and setup separate outlet for full power (50 amps gets me around 300 amps) I still have not set her up for MIG as the wire feeder I got for -- free - has some malfunction in it. Guess there was a reason it was free (its LN-7).

 

[6.5 Fan]

I have a Millermatic 250 mig welder, good machine that will do everything i need and more. Only run solid core .035 wire so it has limits outside in the breeze. Only stick welder at the moment is a very old Forney that hasn't been used for 30 years, thank god. Looking at a AC/DC stick for outside welding on the farm, Everlast is one that a friend has and did some repair on a grapple loader/ Looks like what i need. No gas welding, just set up a propane/oxy unit for cutting and heating, did not care for acyt/oxy gas welding when i tried it.

 

[DPittman]

I've got mig, oxy/acyt and ac/dc stick welder. I learned stick welding in college 30 years ago and it was primarily all DC.

When little home mig welders became affordable I got one and mistakenly thought it would be adequate. If you do any amount of building a 110 volt mig machine won't likely have the amperage you need to make strong safe welds.

I finally bought a decent ac/dc stick welder and although it takes a bit more skill, it is much more flexible/ useful in what I can weld with it.

I like the little mig for real light weight stuff.

I would like a tig welder and now the multiprocess units allow for that also.

Just like all other machinery, you get what you pay for but trying to figure out what you need can be challenging. I've hardly ever regretted buying better/bigger than I initially figured I needed and always "grew" into the bigger/better. I've wished I didn't cheap out quite so much many many times but financial restraints ate what they are.

I think a $2000 multiprocess machine could do all the welding I would need.

 

[kevin.decelles]

3 machines, Millermatic 211 MVP (110/220v plug) that is MIG only, Longevity WeldAll 250pi (250amp TIG, 200 amp ac/dc stick and 40amp plasma cutter), and the good 'ol Lincoln 225 AC (a.k.a the Tombstone).

What I like:

• Millermatic has the AutoSet switch, just dial it to the thickness of steel and weld. No thinking, and it is rarely wrong in terms of penetration/speed etc. Having a dedicated MIG is key
• Longevity - I've had this since ~2008, they were the start of the 'off-brand' inverter multi-process machines (just before Everlast). Knock on wood, this thing has been reliable since day one (minus all the air tubing that i replaced because of leaks). The plasma cutter is fantastic, and the AC/DC stick only gets used when I weld DC. The TIG is the one process I'm still learning. The machine has many settings including pulse etc. and I've made my own tig-cooler. 90% of the usage here is Plasma.
• The Tombstone -- well, I don't think there is a more iconic AC stick welder out there. 99.99% of farms in Saskatchewan has one (or two) . There is something to be said for a transformer based machine -- I agree with @Dabbler on that. It just....... feels different, and it's subtle. That, and the welder ways 100lbs. I think the biggest difference with this welder is that I don't baby it. bang it, kick it, bump it, take it outside, weld in the wind/rain..... who cares. You can't hurt these things.
• having the ability to choose, the ability to have all processes more or less ready all the time.
• Cheap consumables on the Plasma. But that said, I've only went through 3 or 4 tips in 11 years! GET AN AIR DRYER(s) and FILTER. Moisture is your tip killer.
• 220V mig. I had a Lincoln 110V-only mig...... great for thin, but I was always wishing for more juice. Now that I have 220V, I am at peace.....until I used my friends higher end Miller that is all digital and has more power..... and now I wish I had that machine (but not at the cost!)
• Availability of parts for Miller -- like buying milk and bread.
• The sound of turning on the Lincoln Tombstone. If that doesn't get you at your core, part of you has died.

What I don't like:

• Multiprocess machines = time wasted switching hoses, connectors, settings etc. It doesn't seem like a problem until you need to plasma, stick in the same hour. Having the three machines, I have dedicated MIG, Plasma and AC-stick all the time...... and DC-stick/TIG when I want to play around.
• TIG - I see a dedicated TIG machine in my future.... but I need to rule out skill/setup before I do that. Sometimes I wonder what I've sacrificed in quality in having a multiprocess machine. Waaaay more practice/comparison needed. I'll probably ask @Janger for a test drive on his unit to compare.
• Millermatic MVP plug has (had) a plastic lock collar...... broke in 3 days....... come on Miller.
• Tig torch on the Longevity is cheap (S45 model?). But it seems to work.
• Not being in my dads Will anymore because I didn't go all Lincoln.
• When my Longevity dies..... it dies..... parts are pretty much going to be a crap shoot. They are still around, but not prevalent in Canada.

 

[kevin.decelles]

I think a $2000 multiprocess machine could do all the welding I would need.

I thought that too, but I would probably have dedicated machines If I had to do it over. I like my Multiprocess..... but don't love it

 

[cuslog]

Cuslog, we should compare notes some time!

Yes, we should do that sometime !

 

[Tom Kitta]

Main thing about multiprocess machines is savings in $ and savings in space at the price of having to switch things around - great for occasional use if space & money are the issue. It is more capable version of a combination lathe & milling machine.

Technically any TIG machine can do a stick as well so it is "2 process machine" and any decent MIG can also do cored wire not just solid. Any stick machine can do touch TIG. Mutliprocess is CV + CC in one so the machine can do TIG/ stick and MIG. I think Stick + say MIG would not be an issue changing stuff - flip a switch & change wire.

 

[Dabbler]

When someone is just starting out I usually recommend MIG. It isn't the best process for many things - but -it is the easiest to do and you don't need a lot of practice to maintain it. For weekend warriors like me MIG is the way to go, even if it is more expensive per weld inch than stick.

The next higher in skill required, and the cheapest process is stick. If you go stick, get and AC/DC model AND a rod oven. Or just buy an old stove and use that - NEVER dry rods in your food oven, please - you will get heavy metal in your system. Stick is versatile but requires more skill than MIG.

Only play with TIG if you have the interest to keep at it. It is hard to acquire the necessary skills to do a good job. it is slow and expensive for consumables per weld inch. it is the king of welding anything, but each metal, thickness, position and filler metal require subtle differences in electrode selection and technique that are hard to remember. That being said, I love my TIG welder, but my MIG welds will always be better than my TIG ones.

For steel/iron only, OA welding and brazing Needs serious skills, but it is really only appropriate for thin materials. In addition you can repair cast parts with bronze and nickel brazing, but that again requires significant technique. Very experienced welders that don't braze a lot can still destroy a cast part in one sitting. Ask me how I know!

The new (and expensive) process that threatens this heirarchy is Laser Welding - Ive never done it - but It looks like it will eventually become as easy as MIG and as good as TIG.

When I was in High school, we had to certify in OA and stick (3 postition, as it was called then) to pass our course. MIG wasn't available at our school (1972). The test was in steel for lap, corner, and butt, on the flat, and vertical up welding and vertical down welding. and there was a specific quality and time requirement. Our welding teacher was a Monster!!

Also Aluminum welding is another can of worms, can be even more complicated!

 

[Hruul]

Thanks everyone for your information and thoughts. I will have to review some more information prior to deciding on a welder. I thought I had resolved to get a standalone MIG over a multi-process, but that is not a guarantee anymore.

 

[CalgaryPT]

Miller 252 (MIG) and Miller Sycrowave 200 (TIG/Stick), both big transformer machines, but have owned others in the past as well as O/A.

A question that is important is what type of metal will you be welding? TIG will do anything, albeit slowly. MIG requires extra equipment such as a spool gun and a machine that can hold two tanks unless you want to be switching gas all the time if you want to do AL as well. O/A is basically left for artistic stuff, brazing and bending nowadays. Stick is more for outdoors and structural stuff, hardfacing, etc., but is cheap at least. Some call it farmer welding, but that can be a compliment too. Stick and fluxcore MIG have ventilation requirements, but MIG really doesn't if you are only doing a few seconds here and there in your garage. Others will disagree with me on this and I'm sure OHSA will as well, but I have been welding for over 40 years and I can think of at least 10 things that will kill me before fumes will...11 if you include in-laws.

WRT steel, a devoted MIG should do 95% of what you want 95% of the time. Don't get hung up buying a machine that can do 1/2" in a single pass unless you are ship building in your garage. A good quality MIG that can do 3/16" will last a lifetime. You can still build a ship with it if needed, you just need multiple passes.

Similar to @Dabbler 's comment, don't get seduced by the fancy stuff such as controls and features. You're better off spending money on a good quality name brand smaller machine than something that has tons of features. With the exception of those of us here with welding tickets, the average hobby guy will never do enough welding or be good enough to see the difference made by all the tweaking you can do on the inverter machines to adjust waveform. This is great for working on nuclear vessels, etc., but so far past what is needed at a hobby level it's ridiculous. If you go the devoted MIG route try to jump immediately into gas instead to growing out of flux core. MIG is basically a fancy glue gun; with shielding gas you can get a passable weld that is functional within a few hours just by hit and miss and watching Cody. I've taken lots of courses, but most of what I learned I could have figured out if I had had an experienced guy show me for an hour in my shop and then practiced for a few days. My welding isn't perfect and I'm sure could be criticized easily by experts, but it is as good as production welds you see on most machinery and looks as nice when painted as any other.

If I had it to do over again I would do the same thing—buy a good single process devoted MIG machine. You can get a TIG later if needed, but know that a TIG comes with a relationship commitment. You can't learn it as quickly, you have to keep practicing it to even be somewhat decent, and it can be finicky. (All things that fly in the face of many hobby guys who may not have time to nurse it outside their day job.)

Get a self darkening helmet too. They make all the difference.

Best of luck and keep us posted with your decision and results.

 

[cuslog]

"Get a self darkening helmet too. They make all the difference."
and buy a good quality one, keep the lenses clean and splatter free as possible - ya gotta be able to see that weld puddle and where its going.

 

[kevin.decelles]

And plan for the worst (fire/burn). Did a 30 second weld last night, walked to a machine to test fit my piece, turned around and my work-bench 4' away from the welder was on fire. I had (past tense) a blue shop towel under a crank-shaft for a tractor. Spark ignited it and the residual oil from the crankshaft that had soaked into the towel fueled it.

All is well, was able to snuff it without extinguisher, but real example of how fast it can get away from ya. Fire extinguishers are a must, as is a bucket of sand, first-aid-kit.

 

[Hruul]

I was planning to make a temporary welding booth with welding blankets hanging from the single car garage door rails to the floor and between the rails with a piece of conduit to make a three sided open top booth (door being the fourth side). But, yes I will have to make sure I clean up around the area first, my garage is my everything shop space.

I have a fire extinguisher, first aid kit, and can get a bucket of sand. Will be getting a second fire extinguisher for the just incase moments. I have a self darkening helmet, mig pliers, welding coat and a small assortment of clamps and magnets already.