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Using the built in levelling system.
- Thread starter toglhot
- Start date
curmudgeon
(Steve)
My 10x22 lathe only has 2 bolts to hold it to the benchtop. Is this approach better than adjusting the levelling pads at the bottom of the stand?
The 1" thick plywood benchtop won't be perfectly flat, but I can't imagine it twisting the lathe bed; could it?
The 1" thick plywood benchtop won't be perfectly flat, but I can't imagine it twisting the lathe bed; could it?
Normally, I'm a fan of wood. But levelling a lathe is not one of the applications I would ever recommend. In my opinion, even minor changes in humidity would change your level unacceptably. In the case of a lathe, I believe in a steel or cast iron base sitting on concrete.
YMMV
YMMV
curmudgeon
(Steve)
Thanks @Susquatch and @toglhot. The plywood topped bench is more stable than the sheet metal stand that came with the lathe and although I won't worry much about the bench top twisting the lathe bed, I will make a steel stand "one day".
Might be all you ever need. Especially if you only make small parts like most of us do.
If I were you though, I'd make myself a mental note to come back to this issue when or if you discover that your lathe is turning tapers that you didn't intend to make or has concentricity issues you can't figure out. Also be very cautious about what others have to say about lathe levelling. It is NOT trivial.
Above all else, have fun!
Former Member
Guest
Ok, lets get a couple of things straight regarding leveling a lathe (or other machinery).
LEVEL is not the key requirement though it is the easiest way to get a close result as it the easiest to reference, though not the most accurate as it only covers some the issues.
ALIGN the lathe, this means your ways, spindle and all related movements achieve the desired precision and accuracy required.
As to soft or hard mounts. In my latest (new lathe) install I went to vibration absorbing adjustable machine pads. This means there is give and I must say that I am pleased with the cuts because any potential chatter (user error) is almost eliminated. Larger HD machines (lathes, mill, grinders) are mounted. On small hobby shop equipment sometimes these flimsy cabinets are to act as vibration control.
So hard or soft mount is not the important factor, as long as the alignment remains stable during operation and vibration is not amplified, life is good.
LEVEL is not the key requirement though it is the easiest way to get a close result as it the easiest to reference, though not the most accurate as it only covers some the issues.
ALIGN the lathe, this means your ways, spindle and all related movements achieve the desired precision and accuracy required.
As to soft or hard mounts. In my latest (new lathe) install I went to vibration absorbing adjustable machine pads. This means there is give and I must say that I am pleased with the cuts because any potential chatter (user error) is almost eliminated. Larger HD machines (lathes, mill, grinders) are mounted. On small hobby shop equipment sometimes these flimsy cabinets are to act as vibration control.
So hard or soft mount is not the important factor, as long as the alignment remains stable during operation and vibration is not amplified, life is good.
I was deliberately trying to avoid confusing him Degen. He clearly wants to use a wood base. You are right about clarifying what levelling vs aligning REALLY means. But let's be honest here. As simple as it might be to you and I, it a scary rabbit hole for the vast majority of hobbiest machinists. The huge volume of misinformation that is out there does not help.
But I disagree with your last comment. A soft wood mount will move with humidity changes. It's not if - it is only when. It WILL happen even on laminated hardwood. One day the lathe will be perfect, the next day it will cut tapers.
However, @curmudgeon is not the first person to put a lathe on a wood base. So the question is really whether the resulting alignment changes matter enough to him. Hence my comment for him to remember this issue if his lathe starts to cut tapers on longer parts and he is wondering why.
To your point, the commonly used "levelling" term isn't really about levelling at all. It's about aligning the axis of the spindle to the axis of the bed in both twist and bend.
Former Member
Guest
For wood mounts I would suggest oil soak as it greatly reduces moisture absorption, but as mentioned by others it works just be aware of the potential pit falls.
Oil soaking causes other problems. The best is properly cured wood that is sealed. A sealing oil like tung or boiled linseed, or tru-oil is ok, but the wood will still move. Also, cutting oil on the sealed surface will weaken the sealing oil. Even sealed laminated wood will move. It's not if, only how much. And of course, how much is one of those pesky "it depends" questions.
If @curmudgeon is only making short parts, it probably doesn't matter.
Former Member
Guest
curmudgeon
(Steve)
Guys, I really appreciate your advice on alignment and how to reduce impacts of using a wood top under a benchtop lathe. Back to my original question, and I'll try to be more clear.
On a benchtop style lathe with only 2 mounting bolts (one near each end), is it better to align the lathe (for the purpose of reducing twist), by shimming (or similar) between:
1) the lathe and a 1" plywood benchtop, or
2) the benchtop and the stand, or
3) the stand and the floor, or
4) something else?
For me, I already have adjustable pads between the stand and the floor making it easy to check and adjust whenever I feel the need; not saying that I have the discipline to do it as routine setup, but if I needed higher precision for a project I think I would double check the level.
Thanks much,
-Steve
On a benchtop style lathe with only 2 mounting bolts (one near each end), is it better to align the lathe (for the purpose of reducing twist), by shimming (or similar) between:
1) the lathe and a 1" plywood benchtop, or
2) the benchtop and the stand, or
3) the stand and the floor, or
4) something else?
For me, I already have adjustable pads between the stand and the floor making it easy to check and adjust whenever I feel the need; not saying that I have the discipline to do it as routine setup, but if I needed higher precision for a project I think I would double check the level.
Thanks much,
-Steve
@curmudgeon - with only one bolt at each end, you have two choices. Shim between the lathe base and the stand, or between the floor and the stand. I have always found the floor to be a less sensitive place to do the adjustment because you have to crank the floor adjustments more to get a given result at the ways. It also allows you get 8 places to do the adjustment assuming the base of the lathe is a solid fit to the stand. So I prefer the floor.
I also recall a piece of advice from @PeterT who quite correctly pointed out that many smaller lathes are basically set in their ways (no pun intended) at the factory and there is little else that you can do except to learn to live with whatever you have. In other words, if you know what you have, you can try to compensate for it when you make parts.
I also recall a piece of advice from @PeterT who quite correctly pointed out that many smaller lathes are basically set in their ways (no pun intended) at the factory and there is little else that you can do except to learn to live with whatever you have. In other words, if you know what you have, you can try to compensate for it when you make parts.
calgaryguy
Chris
My standard modern 9" Utilathe came on a sheet metal stand from the factory. The 10", 11", 13", and 14" Standard Modern models came the same way and still come this way AFAIK.
I dont see anything wrong with a 'sheet metal' stand as long as its of teh correct gauge and designed well.
calgaryguy
Chris
What are you suggesting if a person was to buy a NEW Standard Modern 1440 lathe like pictured above (or any other 14" lathe on the market today)? Remove it from the factory engineered base and fab something of your own? The SM 1440 weights 1800lbs.
You clearly arent thinking this through....
You clearly arent thinking this through....
Lathe stands are best bolted to the floor securely as level as you can get them. Keeping in mind, concrete floor are not the flatest surfaces around, so trying to level a bed lathe to within 0.02mm might be a litte difficult using shims between the concrete floor and the stand, even screw type feet. Metal on metal is another thing, metal is usualy pretty straight, so shimming is reasonably easy, if not quick. That's why I designed the leveling system I use: it is very quick and can be levelled to within 0.02mm on my 280x600 athe, probably better, but that's the best my engineers level can manage.
calgaryguy
Chris
Are you replying to me?
I'm not suggesting anything, just telling what I did for my 280 x600 lathe. I don't have an SM 1440. You do what you like with it.
You clearly are misunderstanding what I've said and what this thread is about. Read the original, first post, look at the lathe, does it look like a new, modern, SM1440, 14" lathe?