Unbalanced 4 jaw on my 12x36

[Proxule]

Hey fellas,

I recently acquired my new 12x36 king Canada lathe, I furnished up some leveling feet using some hockey pucks, carriage bolts and some flat disks to sit atop the hockey pucks to make a vibration dampening feet. * thanks Everett for the stock !

I am in a pickle regarding my 3 jaw and 4 jaw.
My 3 jaw has a subtle vibration from 600 to 800 rpm. With and with out the jaws installed.
The jaws are all 302 grams exactly, So its likely in the body some where.

The real scary part is my 4 jaw, with the jaws out, At 600 rpms it will literally dance my lathe across the floor.

I have no static balancing rig, and looking at the rear of this 4 jaw chuck I can see excessive amount of casting material or sand? in the 4 pockets, so there will definitely be some weights added and removed.
Any one has any ideas of other ways to balance this chuck - I was thinking chucking up some stock and getting as close to zero TIR as possible, and mount the whole unit between centers to make a static balance rig, Sort of?

Any one in Edmonton have a balance I can test my chuck out on?
\Thanks guys!


Edit - Does any one know how to change the thread heading? I misspelled unbalanced - thanks

 

[YYCHM]

Hey fellas,

I recently acquired my new 12x36 king Canada lathe

Edit - Does any one know how to change the thread heading? I misspelled unbalanced - thanks

A brand spanking new King Canada supplied chuck is that out of balance??? Are you sure it's mounted correctly? What's the runout on it? Post some pictures.

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[Proxule]

Runout is less then .0005 on the body of the 4 jaw.
Yes its mounted and indexed correctly.

What pictures do you desire ?
Thanks

 

[YYCHM]

looking at the rear of this 4 jaw chuck I can see excessive amount of casting material or sand? in the 4 pockets, so there will definitely be some weights added and removed.

Pics of this.

If it's brand new, ask to have it replaced.

 

[YotaBota]

You didn't mention if you contacted the place where you bought it. See if they will loan you another chuck to test with. As both chucks are vibrating it may not be the chucks, have you run it with the faceplate or even without a chuck?
New machine warranty should have a tech at your door to sort this out, once you're certain it's not self induced.

 

[Everett]

His chucks are just like mine, there is no real "back plate" per se but the D1-4 mount is part of the chuck. THey come with the machine as part of the kit. The 3 pins attach directly to the back of the casting near the tapered hole. I've had some issues with my lathe since it was new too but issues are common with mainland "there" equipment of various types. It's just running what we can afford to buy.
FWIW, my machine shakes at 600 rpm too, I just don't use that speed much. Not above, not below, but at that speed, but as it is not used much I have not looked into it,

 

[Proxule]

Ill be contacting kms monday. I have a feeling none of these chucks are REALLY balanced as a monarch or colchester or bison etc is.
But it should be able to be used at 600rpm with out a death rattle.

With chucks removed and feed lever disengaged at the headstock.... there is a very very subtle vibration at 600rpm. Im betting its the belts. And the churning of the oils.

So yes im going to confirm its the chucks. And most importantly the 4 jaw.

Thanks

 

[YotaBota]

My machine has the D1-4 mount as well and it runs smooth right up to 1800rpm with chucks or faceplate.
If it was a belt the vibration should be there with or without the chuck, theory on my part.
I'm interested to hear what KMS has to say.
Good luck.

 

[RobinHood]

If you think it is casting material left over in the back and they just painted over it to make it stay in place, I would remove it. Clean all the stuff out that will come out.

You could use two gear clamps tightened to the chuck, 180* opposite to each other (after you mark a reference point). Now spin the chuck. Note the vibrations. Stop the chuck. Move the clamps relative to each other some distance from the reference. Run again. If vibes are reducing, move clamps more in same direction a small amount. Adjust until vibes are gone (or at least reduced to a min). Now you know where the light part is (between the clamp heads) & thus the heavy part (180* opposite the light area).

You can now remove material from the heavy side; or add to the light side. Stick-on car wheel balance weights would probably work.

Google how to balance a drive shaft with hose clamps. Same principle as I try to describe above. Should help get you there.

Or, as has been suggested, replace under warranty.

 

[Tom O]

I’d go with the hose clamps it would be easier to add or subtract weight.

 

[Tom O]

My 4 jaw has slots I guess to balance weight distribution

 

[YYCHM]

My 4 jaw has slots I guess to balance weight distribution View attachment 16132

What are you making there Tom? Looks like an interesting project.

 

[Proxule]

Thanks for the suggestion RobinHood. Thats an idea !
Thanks for the replies guys.

My faceplate also has a vibration at 600 rpm. Nearly gone at 800.
I want to take a face and rim cut to see if that helps. But ill wait for kms first.

Thanks

 

[PeterT]

I wonder if you have a motor / mount problem, not a rotating object problem. When I replaced the belt on my 14-40 lathe, I didn't have the motor swing/tension plate bolted down quite correct & I was seeing all kinds of crazy harmonic lines in the finish at certain rpms. Corrected the mount issue & problem went away, smooth as silk. Well... not 3 phase VFD motor silk, but as good as it ever was on this lathe.

 

[Proxule]

I wonder if you have a motor / mount problem, not a rotating object problem. When I replaced the belt on my 14-40 lathe, I didn't have the motor swing/tension plate bolted down quite correct & I was seeing all kinds of crazy harmonic lines in the finish at certain rpms. Corrected the mount issue & problem went away, smooth as silk. Well... not 3 phase VFD motor silk, but as good as it ever was on this lathe.

I tore the lathe apart. Literally to fetch my casting sand and torque bolts and what not. As I had a 10x22 lathe and my exp was terrible with that. So for sure the motor mount and belt slack has been adj.
But new quality belts / link belts couldnt hurt !
3 phase and vfd even better....

I indexd my 3 jaw a couple more times and got the vibrations to a acceptable level. In comparison to my 4 jaw and face plate.

Face plate shows .012 runout on the face and .006 on the rim. Dont these jokers at the factoy ccut the D1-4 taper then skim the face and rim ??
Allthough to be fair I was always taught to skim the face and rim everytime I mount the faceplate....

I love king canada !

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[Dabbler]

@Tom O those slots are for work holding and fixturing stops for postiioning the work outboard of the flat faceplate.

Waaay back when I made a multi-shot mold for a project; 5 lbs of aluminum on my light 750 lb 12X37 lathe. It involved offsetting more than 2" off cnetre, and no big vibration. So I'm stumped.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Test it at 800 rpm as well as 1000 rpm and at either top speed of the lathe or max speed of the chuck & report your findings.

My large lathe vibrates at around 500-600 rpm but is fine above and under that speed. It is simply the speed at which things get magnified.

You can check the chuck but I doubt it is the problem.

 

[PeterT]

Face plate shows .012 runout on the face and .006 on the rim. Dont these jokers at the factoy ccut the D1-4 taper then skim the face and rim ??
Allthough to be fair I was always taught to skim the face and rim everytime I mount the faceplate....

ok, this could be a different issue, also which I experienced. I bought a faceplate that was not fitting the spindle nose quite right. Every time I locked the pins I got a different runout reading. What was happening was the taper angle was Ok but under diameter vs spindle nose. So it rides up & then basically gets stuck prematurely just depending on how its married & tightend. This was confirmed by blueing & examining the rub. There were no burr surface hang-ups and didnt appear oblonged which was good. It was just a bit tight everywhere. It has to match the taper and the vertical land backface simultaneously.

What I did was a bit ghetto but it worked. I made a partial lap from epoxy putty (basically Bondo but nil shrink) on my known good taper. Used a release wax intended for this purpose. Then I blued the surface with felt pen, trapped some wet-dry paper & carefully lapped it. Clean it, blue it, test again. Eventually it was a perfect fit. Only then its fair game to take a skim off the face & edge. Now its actually my best fitting accessory, takes a teeny mallet knock to come off. I could have made the Bondo tool the full spindle profile & used lapping compound. That was my initial thinking but I was initially suspicious it might be egged & so I figured a partial sector tool could work a certain area & not another area. If I had to guess probably took 0.001-0.002" off the wall but also made a much nicer surface.

Now in my case I trusted my spindle 100% & have no issues with my other chucks. It was just this oddball faceplate acquisition. Hopefully you don't have issues with the camlock studs or spindle itself. How much runout is on your spindle nose now with no accessory mounted? Also are your chucks mounted to a D1-4 adapter plate & maybe those are out radially?

 

[Tom O]

What are you making there Tom? Looks like an interesting project.

It’s the drive wheel for a 2x72 this is checking the taper and when fitted it will clamp onto the motor shaft.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Face plate shows .012 runout on the face and .006 on the rim. Dont these jokers at the factoy ccut the D1-4 taper then skim the face and rim ??
Allthough to be fair I was always taught to skim the face and rim everytime I mount the faceplate....

That is a huge amount of runout. Check whatever it sits right in the taper -if it does not go all the way into the taper this could be the result - you can use feeler gages for this.