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metal supermarket

Colten Edwards

Fabricator
Does Metals SuperMarket only use UPS for shipping. I was going to place an order for some 1045 round bar which was going to cost me 75 plus 20 in tax and finally 95 in shipping for 14lbs of metal. Now I know everyone wants to make money but this is slightly too much. Edmonton to Saskatoon is not that far. 14inches of 2inch CRS.
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
For over 200$ you can get a whole stick of CRS - it sounds like you want around 2" diameter, right? Look in the metal suppliers thread. CRS should be about 60 cents a pound at top market price, and 30 cents for a whole stick.
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
Steel inc will sell you 2" hot rolled 10 feet under $120. No need to use Metal Super. He'll cut it into 5' sections for you for free...
 
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Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
There must be somebody selling steel in Saskatoon. Call around? Do you have to have 1045?
 

Tom Kitta

Ultra Member
Does it have to be 1045? Steel inc is expensive and only in Calgary area - if you come for a visit try Federal Metals & save your money. For far less $ I can cut off 14 inches off some stainless steel I have - it is harder in its current condition than 1045 but I am not sure how well you can harden it. I may have a small piece of 4140 in 2 inches - that would exceed all parameters of 1045. Maybe 4330 - even stronger.
 

Colten Edwards

Fabricator
what I'm needing is a precision rod about 2" in diameter. I'd like to make a test bar for my lathe to see how out of alignment the head is and what kind of taper I'm cutting. I tried a 3/4" piece of drill rod, but it's not quite straight and it's really too small for what I am wanting todo.
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
You can use a rod of 2" aluminum to do this. There are many youtube videos on lathe aligment, an diagnosis by turning a dumbell shape.
 

Tom Kitta

Ultra Member
For that purpose a pipe is better - 2" or more solid rod is heavy in bigger lengths - pipe is almost as rigid but much lighter.
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
Pipe. Not really. Maybe for really heavy wall pipe.
Because holding the pipe distorts it. You are trying to cut to tenths, so the cutter pushes away the wall of the pipe. This results in false readings or non round cuts if the pipe is steel. It is expensive to get a large centre for a pipe. to test accurately, you cut a dumbell, which further weakens the centre of the pipe. There is no ground pipe I know of that is accurate to tenths.

The cut accuracy and the weight are taken care of if you do it in aluminum.

Using a ground hardened rod in the 2" size is convenient for most hobby lathes. You can buy a 4" X 1" diameter dowel pin to do a fair check of the same things, just not so accurate as the span is small, but it is a great start!
 

Everett

Super User
I've been wanting to make a test bar too, but was going to make a home built knock off of the Edge Technology one with two steel ends with centres drilled that are pressed into an aluminum centre section about 18" long. Just depends on finding some aluminum bar that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
The other thought I had was pressing centre drilled ends into a piece of 1-1/2 sched 80 pipe with the ends slightly bored to clean up the ID. Then, shaving the pipe OD with a shear tool should allow adjusting the tail stock until the tube is parallel over its length. After that it would just need use of an indicator if i ever needed to check again. The sched 80 pipe has a wall thickness of about .200, so that should be rigid enough even if I have to take .030 to straighten it out.
Unfortunately it's on the 'to do' list that keeps getting more pressing stuff pencilled in above where it's written . . . Let us know what you come up with, maybe you'll come across something really good!
 

Tom Kitta

Ultra Member
Perhaps I should have said cylinder instead of a pipe - what I meant was an object that is hollow in the middle - like ground right angle cylinder.

Obviously you can just grab almost anything and start cutting collars.

I still have to play alignment with my clunker. Few times I needed something precise I just used tail-stock.
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
The Edge tool is useful but I think you could replicate one with some careful machining. Note, important bits are the ground steel ends with center drills on outboard ends. Those OD's are what you are indicating on. The aluminum in the middle is basically a carrier, you are not indicating down that part. I'm 99% sure its a section of tubing which is cheap. You could in fact make a longer tube & increase the accuracy of tailstock offset on that (geometric) basis alone. The only criteria is that the indicator set up on your carriage but register on both the HS & TS collars without disrupting the indicator itself.

The other methods of turning test bars are either a continuous cut down cylindrical stock. Or you undercut the middle portion & then only cut the end 'dumbell' bosses for the accurate/measuring part.

The way I would make an Edge clone:
- turn 2 very identical steel collars parts with 1) center drill 2) collar boss 3) tubing ID fit in one lathe setup setting so they are all concentric. (This is a bit of chicken & egg because it presumes your tailstock for center drilling is reasonably accurate already)
- turn the tubing ends square & dress the ID bores also in one setup
- locktite the collars into either end
- with the assembly between centers, skim off a couple thou from the collar boss OD on HS end only. Lock the carriage on this setting. Flip the bar end for end & repeat. You have now accomplished making 'mostly' identical dumbell ends. (Clue: look at the video where they are grinding this feature). The caveat is if your lathe is a bit inaccurate to begin with, it might affect the accuracy of your test bar. But we are confining most of the error to cutting very close to the HS, not involving chucks & minimizing TS affect. By buying a ready to use bar, that has been done for us already. Choose your poison.

To use, you insert the bar between centers. Lock down the TS (important). Zero reference DTI off the HS collar, traverse down to TS end & compare that reading. Its that simple. No cutting involved, just measuring. Note there are 2 separate measurements which affect taper turning or off center drilling however you want to look at it.
- in/out across the lathe bed. Initially set the DTI ball at 3-oclock position. If HS measures 0.000" and TS is out toward operator 0.003" then jack the TS back in until it reads 0.000" but do this with the indicator in place because the jacking / set screw will likely have an affect on reading.
- up/down where TS is higher or lower than HS spindle. Set the DTI ball at 12-oclock position. I've heard most TS are factory set 1-2 thou high & isn't quite as bad as in/out from taper turning perspective. Supposedly this is to allow for wear. But I dont quite get this. My lathe has been 2 thou high since day-1.

But also realize that before the TS is zeroed into position, the lathe bed should have no twist and the HS must be aligned to the lathe bed. That's a different subject, but supersedes TS alignment.
 
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Dabbler

ersatz engineer
I understand, Tom - BTW a 'cylinder square' is always solid, never hollow.

I've used cylinder squares in 5 or 6 shops, from B&s to Starret to Interrapid. Always a solid heatreated billet, then either carburized (or not). It is possible some of the offshore ones are hollow to save $$, but ...
 

kevin.decelles

Jack of all trades -- Master of none
Premium Member
I picked up the edge alignment bar from kbc last week, not much to it, really simplified the process, but absolutely can be fabbed

I saw a review by abom79 on YouTube that put me over the fence on whether to buy it. Edge is one of his sponsors so he'll test their tools from time to time

Tubalcain (mrpete) did a good video on making your own collar test bar


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