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HuanYang VFD drill press application (noise & startup)

P

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
Stumbled on this video. Its quite long but the 2 takeaways for me were (1) quite a bit of fan noise & persistent fan ON condition (2) slow-ish boot up time for a machine that you typically want to walk up, flip the switch & get on with it. Regarding (1) I was kind of clicking fast forward but don't think he ever solved it. Regarding (2) maybe not the end of the world maybe kind of irritating (his demo at 0.44)

Nobody really talks about background noise maybe because the typical mill & lathe & belt grinder apps drown it out. Or maybe the separate cabinet installation like Clough42 & others do baffles it? What was interesting is his other VFD inverter (Invertek Optidrive) was quieter & fan on demand (but more expesive). I'm wondering for a drill press conversion, would something like this be a better choice? Or maybe cabinet housing a VFD is what one is always supposed to do vs wall mount exposed? Is there a parameter name for bootup time one could look up or compare, or it is what it is, or maybe varies by how much programming instructions its digesting?

www.thebeltgrinder.com

VFD

We offer variable speed drives, ranging from 1HP to 2HP.
www.thebeltgrinder.com


 
My VFD runs only when the it reaches X temp. User adjustable. Or always on when power is applied. Silent wile in standby.
I could care less how noisy the fan is, I really only care about the terrible audible high pitch whine. And that is also an adjustable parameter, But with in reason as it overheats the motor / VFD

gluck

I have 3 of these running for almost 3 years.

1 recently failed and took me ages to track it down to a filter cap on the daughter board. A small filter capacitor that fed a onboard LED

Otherwise, bulletproof!
 
I have a couple of cheap Amazon vfds and the fans run all the time but I don't believe they are as loud as in that video. I also have both vfds enclosed in a metal cabinet which has another fan on it to move air through the box. The noise of the 3 fans is not too irritating to me but is enough to know that I have left the power to the vfds on if I walk away.
The start up time for my vfds is not nearly as long as that first example in the video. I don't recall there being a programable parameter for start up time but I could have easily missed it as I just got the basic programming completed and have ran with that.
 
What about the Genesis type VFD I linked, commonly used in belt grinders. (Aside from cost) would that be a preferred control for a 3p drill press motor? Unlike other machines, there just aren't any real control inputs on a drill press. Turn on, adjust rpm & drill.
 
PeterT said:
What about the Genesis type VFD I linked, commonly used in belt grinders. (Aside from cost) would that be a preferred control for a 3p drill press motor? Unlike other machines, there just aren't any real control inputs on a drill press. Turn on, adjust rpm & drill.
Click to expand...
That one certainly is nice and simple and looks well built. What if the "carrier frequency" had to be adjusted like in your linked video to reduce motor noise? Then you might want some options??? I suspect tho that Genesis one is already optimized for north American market/power???
The price of the Genesis seems sky-high compared to the other low cost alternatives.
 
PeterT said:
What about the Genesis type VFD I linked, commonly used in belt grinders. (Aside from cost) would that be a preferred control for a 3p drill press motor? Unlike other machines, there just aren't any real control inputs on a drill press. Turn on, adjust rpm & drill.
Click to expand...

I dunno Peter. Lot of extra coin for plug N play - no cabinet required, pre-programmed, etc.

Disadvantage is high cost, no display, no tuning for anything, no remote controls, etc

For my money I'd want something more fully featured even if it is "just a drill press".

I think that's mostly just my personal preference. I don't really think that the Tecos need a cabinet and unless something changes none of mine will get one.
 
I agree. What I'm wondering is if there is a less expensive version of the Genesis type? Or maybe they are just more expensive because they are built different that the Teco/clones. Other than motor tuning programming capability which I'm guessing the Genesis/belt sander types must have, what other features could one even want for a drill press? We don't typically ever jog or Fwd/Neut/Rev level or E-stop or limit switch... I mean maybe there is something within this which might be fun to have, but I'm perfectly happy with present flick a switch & drill. I just would like some rpm control within the current belt setup.

In terms of enclosure, I'm just regurgitating what I've heard of others. If its in an environment that sees dust or debris, you are basically circulating that particulate through the VFD boards. And some retrofits may require the contact switches or other electrical do-dads to be housed in same close proximity. I don't think this applies to majority of drill press installations. But any significant fan noise just idling would bug me I suspect.
 
DPittman said:
The price of the Genesis seems sky-high compared to the other low cost alternatives.
Click to expand...

The Genesis VFDs linked are NEMA4x/IP65 enclosed units. IP65 is “liquid tight” / dust proof.

F6DF0F93-A643-44EE-854A-F6114C77EE0D.jpeg


The type of enclosure adds a lot of extra cost to an otherwise similar internals device. Perhaps in that aspect, they are still reasonably priced when compared to the low cost ones?
 
My homemade enclosure with fan in box and drawing air up through the bottom of the box was to reduce the amount of dirt for the vfds. I'm sure it is helpful but it is certainly not perfect as you can see fine dust that settled on the instructions booklet that sits in the bottom of the enclosure. I think I paid like $70 per vfd for these units so was willing to accept them being less than ideal. Fan noise is not a bother when running drill or mill but I wouldn't leave it on all day in the background "just in case"
20230129_094705.jpg
I wanted to use a machine.
 
@RobinHood that's kind of what I figured. A typical VFD mounted to or close to a typical belt grinder would ingest problematic levels of debris. Their motors are somehow sealed off too.
A cabinet might have other benefits related to wiring & safety & I don't think they are expensive, it just seems like a workaround if its basically a 'muffler' LOL
 
Good catch @RobinHood. IP65 is definitely worth some coin. It's prolly great for the belt grinder environment it was designed for. I agree it's worth the coin for that.

But not in my shop. I do have dust, but not enough to cause me to want or need IP65 for a drill press. To be honest, I'm quite happy with the single phase motor and pulleys on my Beaver now.

Some good came of all this drill press discussion for me though. In checking out my belt system, motor, and vise, I realised I've been putting up with a junky old vise for a long time now. The jaw retraction has been broken for ages because the original retainer system broke. It worked fine manually pulling the Jaw back so I never fixed it. The Jaws were almost never aligned properly either. So I am pitching it. I'd give it away but it's pure garbage and embarrassing. I've cleaned up my little x/y table, and am adding a new 4 inch 3-way vise from Busy Bee. It will be a lot better setup now.

Just need to cleanup the busy bee vise tie down slots a wee bit to fit the T-Nut Bolts properly, tram the table and vise, bolt it down solidly, and it's good to go.

I do plan to add a tach, and maybe someday I'll add a 3ph motor and VFD, but it's fine for now as is and prolly always will be for my needs.
 
Susquatch said:
Good catch @RobinHood. IP65 is definitely worth some coin. It's prolly great for the belt grinder environment it was designed for. I agree it's worth the coin for that.

But not in my shop. I do have dust, but not enough to cause me to want or need IP65 for a drill press. To be honest, I'm quite happy with the single phase motor and pulleys on my Beaver now.

Some good came of all this drill press discussion for me though. In checking out my belt system, motor, and vise, I realised I've been putting up with a junky old vise for a long time now. The jaw retraction has been broken for ages because the original retainer system broke. It worked fine manually pulling the Jaw back so I never fixed it. The Jaws were almost never aligned properly either. So I am pitching it. I'd give it away but it's pure garbage and embarrassing. I've cleaned up my little x/y table, and am adding a new 4 inch 3-way vise from Busy Bee. It will be a lot better setup now.

Just need to cleanup the busy bee vise tie down slots a wee bit to fit the T-Nut Bolts properly, tram the table and vise, bolt it down solidly, and it's good to go.

I do plan to add a tach, and maybe someday I'll add a 3ph motor and VFD, but it's fine for now as is and prolly always will be for my needs.
Click to expand...
Did you already order a vise? I have two for sale. The post was lost when the forum went down and I never got around to re posting it.

I mentioned in the other thread about drill press speed control that I have a DC drive and motor. It came with mine. I’m pretty sure a VFD set up can be cheaper and higher powered but it’s instant start and no fan. The drive is KB brand and the motor is 3/4hp.
 
New drill press setup with vise slots machined to clear 1/2" studs.

Was an easy job. Just chucked a 123 block in the mill and then clamped the drill press vise upside down on the same block then milled the slots with a 9/16 endmill.

20230129_160356.jpg


Needs 1/2-13 flanged bolts. Shortest T-nut studs are too long. Yet another job.
 
Rauce said:
Did you already order a vise? I have two for sale. The post was lost when the forum went down and I never got around to re posting it.

I mentioned in the other thread about drill press speed control that I have a DC drive and motor. It came with mine. I’m pretty sure a VFD set up can be cheaper and higher powered but it’s instant start and no fan. The drive is KB brand and the motor is 3/4hp.
Click to expand...

Sorry, yes. It arrived yesterday.

A VFD and 3ph motor for my drill press is a distant future project. My drill press motor is pretty wimpy. It isn't the original motor. But it did come with the drill press when I got it 50 years ago.

This drill press was my first mill. The spindle has side bearings and the chuck has a threaded collar to keep it on when milling.
 
Susquatch said:
Needs 1/2-13 flanged bolts. Shortest T-nut studs are too long. Yet another job.
Click to expand...

Wife went into town again so I snuck out to the barn and knocked this one off the list today. Got some 1-3/4" bolts and shortened them to 1-1/4 to fit my T-nuts and then trammed the vise.

20230219_154717.jpg


I would have preferred black bolts but sometimes you use what you got. Nothing I ever drill will know the difference.

Was gunna make chip shields for the mill DRO too but it seems I don't have any suitable sheet metal.

Besides, I gotta get back to the house before SWMBO gets home.
 
That reminds me, Clough42 did a very good segment on the KBAC-27D VFD internals & wiring & setup which he used used for the belt grinder. They are indeed quite different than the conventional TECO style VFD. If money were no object I would say a good match for drill press use, but they are considerably more money. Curious why there doesn't seem to be clone renditions or maybe they are just more expensive to manufacture based on the components.

1676850016461.webp
1676850124358.webp


 
Proxule said:
My VFD runs only when the it reaches X temp. User adjustable. Or always on when power is applied. Silent wile in standby.
I could care less how noisy the fan is, I really only care about the terrible audible high pitch whine. And that is also an adjustable parameter, But with in reason as it overheats the motor / VFD

gluck

I have 3 of these running for almost 3 years.

1 recently failed and took me ages to track it down to a filter cap on the daughter board. A small filter capacitor that fed a onboard LED

Otherwise, bulletproof!
Click to expand...
What were the symptoms when your VFD failed?

I'm curious how you tracked down the bad capacitor?

Were you able to get a schematic?

I have one that is similar that quit after about one year of light use. Nothing visibly obvious, just no display, I would like to repair it, tricky without a schematic.
My Altivar just keeps on working and seems more refined.
 
slow-poke said:
What were the symptoms when your VFD failed?

I'm curious how you tracked down the bad capacitor?

Were you able to get a schematic?

I have one that is similar that quit after about one year of light use. Nothing visibly obvious, just no display, I would like to repair it, tricky without a schematic.
My Altivar just keeps on working and seems more refined.
Click to expand...
I was wondering when some one would ask this.
Schematic? hahahah - You are awesome! I spent days searching and contacting Asian manufacturers. Nothing!
Their answer, Buy a new one!

The display and unit would flip on as per normal, I heard the relay click in. All high voltage paths were okay. Caps looked okay. No obvious magic Chinese smoke or burnt traces. So I flipped my attention to the low voltage side and daughter board.
The 5v regulator was on FIRE and suspected it was a shorted LM regulator. Swapped it out, Nothing.....

So I injected 5amps of 5v instead of the 1 amps or what ever the LM regulator could handle.
I have used this technique in the past. When the high current low voltage started to flow - I quickly used my temp gun and felt around the daughter board with my fingers and probed around with the temp gun.

Sure enough I located the area rather quickly. Pulled some SMD caps and replaced with what I thought was reasonable values.
Flipped the switch and whala. Everything back to normal - normal!

Gluck on your adventure!
 
Proxule said:
I was wondering when some one would ask this.
Schematic? hahahah - You are awesome! I spent days searching and contacting Asian manufacturers. Nothing!
Their answer, Buy a new one!

The display and unit would flip on as per normal, I heard the relay click in. All high voltage paths were okay. Caps looked okay. No obvious magic Chinese smoke or burnt traces. So I flipped my attention to the low voltage side and daughter board.
The 5v regulator was on FIRE and suspected it was a shorted LM regulator. Swapped it out, Nothing.....

So I injected 5amps of 5v instead of the 1 amps or what ever the LM regulator could handle.
I have used this technique in the past. When the high current low voltage started to flow - I quickly used my temp gun and felt around the daughter board with my fingers and probed around with the temp gun.

Sure enough I located the area rather quickly. Pulled some SMD caps and replaced with what I thought was reasonable values.
Flipped the switch and whala. Everything back to normal - normal!

Gluck on your adventure!
Click to expand...
Well I have different symptoms (no display). I did poke around a bit and IIRC the main DC bus was okay and nothing looked cooked, so possibly power supply for the control/ display section. I loathe troubleshooting without a schematic, and quite enjoy it with a schematic.

With your fault, do you have a sense for what that 5V bus is used for?
Sounds like the bad cap was near a short circuit, but I suppose it could have been just low enough impedance to get the regulator toasty but high enough to allow the display to work? Or perhaps it's used for something other than the display?

Did you measure how far down the 5V rail was being pulled?

I'm asking all this because often these failures are not simply a one of component failure but either a design or manufacturing flaw and who knows might be the same problem on mine.

I miss the days of full schematics in the manual; HP, Keithley etc.
 
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