How much would you pay for a Myford?

[trlvn]

So I noticed a Myford metal lathe at auction down near Sarnia.

The description only said "Milford Lathe 7 Blue Cabinet *Many High End Contents". Only 2 crappy photos.

I'm no Myford expert but given the drip oilers and lack of quick change gear box, it looks to me like an older ML7 -- not the more-desirable Super 7B or Super 7 Plus models.

The auction just finished...with a winning bid of $3,300!!! With 10% buyers premium and HST, that is $4,101.90 by my calculation.





Yikes. The bid history shows 2 guys (I presume they are guys) slugging it out until one of them just couldn't press the Bid button any more!! The third place bidder dropped out at $1,550...which is still pretty rich in my view.

There was an in-person preview available. Maybe the cabinet is packed with all sorts of good stuff. Still can't imagine how over $4k can be justified for a change-gear lathe.

Craig

PS I hope the winning bidder isn't here reading this!

 

[Mcgyver]

yeah, auctions are easy to get caught up in and people forget about all the BS fees & taxes. If it had every accessory Myford ever made it would be an good price. They are a very high quality lathe, that and the fact they go down the stairs makes them highly desirable, but I agree with you. Its no cream puff and its not a super 7.

I bought a super 7 once, tons of accessories and lightly used. Bought it really just because it was so cheap I couldn't help myself. Very impressed with the fit/finish, but alas it went to make room for something else. A nice thing about them is most are bought by guys who cherish them; keep them clean and slathered in oil so they very often are in great shape.

 

[YotaBota]

f it had every accessory Myford ever made it would be an ok price.

There was a Super7 "with everything" advertised here in Victoria for $15K. Looked nice but $15K,wow. Don't know if it actually sold or the ad just ran out but I don't see it this morning,

 

[Mcgyver]

to put it in a stock market paralance, there can be a huge spread between the bid and the ask .

 

[francist]

Well, I think I would consider it. And I can say that honestly because there was a gorgeous, new-in-crate one that came up here a few years ago for 6 grand and I did consider that one!

Why? I’m not sure really, but when I look at that machine I see a good quality machine capable of nice precision in a size that is very manageable for a basement shop. And, no electronics to crap out in five years, no boards to fry, no plastic knobs to break. I think there’s an odd kind of wave-action where small machines all of a sudden start costing more than larger (and usually more capable) counterparts and it’s hard for people to get their heads around that. “How can a machine that small with no this or that cost that much? when that’s exactly why it can cost that much. There are few others with those qualities within reach so it fills a niche market in some respects.

I know, I’m sure that doesn’t make sense to a lot of people but for some there may be more in the mix than just the hard specifications. This from a man who has no less than twelve sewing machines, and none of them newer than 1970!

 

[kevin.decelles]

Health and wealth willing, I'll own one before I go to the shop in the sky.

 

[Canadium]

So I noticed a Myford metal lathe at auction down near Sarnia.

The auction just finished...with a winning bid of $3,300!!! With 10% buyers premium and HST, that is $4,101.90 by my calculation.

Yikes. The bid history shows 2 guys (I presume they are guys) slugging it out until one of them just couldn't press the Bid button any more!! The third place bidder dropped out at $1,550...which is still pretty rich in my view.

There was an in-person preview available. Maybe the cabinet is packed with all sorts of good stuff. Still can't imagine how over $4k can be justified for a change-gear lathe.

Craig

I totally agree with you. I would rather have a South Bend 9A and those can be had for a lot less than 4K. I wouldn't even consider buying a small lathe without a QCGB. When ever I bid in auctions I always figure the additional fees into the price. In recent years though it seems to me bidding in on line auctions has become popular and the competition is usually fierce. Better deals can be found on Kijiji.

 

[Mcgyver]

“How can a machine that small with no this or that cost that much? when that’s exactly why it can cost that much. There are few others with those qualities within reach so it fills a niche market in some respects.

I know, I’m sure that doesn’t make sense to a lot of people but for some there may be more in the mix than just the hard specifications. This from a man who has no less than twelve sewing machines, and none of them newer than 1970!

I mostly agree with you, if it was Super 7. Price out Schaublin 70 stuff for a sticker shock.....like the old divorce joke, "why does it cost so much? Because its worth it!" If you've got 30,000 - 45,000 you can go buy a new Schaublin 70 or Levin lathe - lathes that you can basically carry under your arm. But man, are they ever nice! They leave most others wanting, and that's what it costs today to build exception quality.

Myford's had their heyday in an area when a nice little lathe costs the better part of what a new car did. That's what it costs to build quality and they did not disappoint. They were built to a different expectation. Many criticize their pricing as the result of unwarranted fandom, but I disagree. I think the fit and finish of them is quality worthy of the price.

Since we're sort of rambling (or at least I am), I guess price/value recieved is also relative. If you had $100MM in the bank, who cares if its 4, 6 or 15 thousand? Most of us want to pay as little as possible, but you only go around once so sometimes its better to get what you want. The only reservation I'd have on Super 7 is the box ways, maybe its not an issue but I like inverted V's.

A fantastic lathe about the same size with V ways is Holbrook B8 which is a current project of mine. If you ever see one, pounce. As a manufacturer, Holbrook is up there with Pacemaker, Monarch, DSG etc and this was their baby lathe. just for kicks, here's some shots of the scraped bed of mine...and this one does have a QCGB!

Next up is the tailstock, lap the bore, hard chrome and grind the quill then scrape for alignment...just as soon as I finish the Schaublin 70 project!

 

[PeterT]

Nice Mcgyver. Did you learn scraping through training/work or is this a skill you developed on your own?

 

[Canadium]

Myford's had their heyday in an area when a nice little lathe costs the better part of what a new car did. That's what it costs to build quality and they did not disappoint. They were built to a different expectation. Many criticize their pricing as the result of unwarranted fandom, but I disagree. I think the fit and finish of them is quality worthy of the price.

Sorry I just couldn't resist a reply. This sounds like a very interesting perspective but strikes me as conjecture more than fact with respect to Myford lathes specifically. So I went on a search for a factual comparison. I have the original purchase papers for my South Bend 9A from 1967. It was purchased in Toronto for $1590 CAD including a few accessories but not including taxes. If we exclude the import duties for a fairer comparison the price was $1232 CAD. ( Can include a copy if anyone doesn't believe me)
According to Google the average car in Canada at the time cost about $2,750
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=How+much+did+a+car+cost+in+1967

There is mention on a Myford lathe forum where someone says they bought their Myford ML7 new in 1968 for 120 BP including accessories
https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=99444&p=2
According to a website with historical exchange rates that translates to about $360 CAD in 1968.
https://fx.sauder.ubc.ca/etc/GBPpages.pdf
According to another website listing historical car prices a cheap Renault 4 in 1968 cost about 400BP in England.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/features/cost-car-year-born/

My conclusion would be that in their day of manufacture the South Bend 9A was a much more expensive lathe than the Myford ML7. If the original price was a reflection of their quality then the South Bend 9A must be a much better machine than the Myford ML7. Today used machines in the SB9A model can be had for 1-2K. For an ML7 to sell for 4K seems illogical. Please correct me if my calculations are incorrect.

 

[Mcgyver]

Was the price for the SB just the lathe, or a total with all kinds of tooling? There was no intent by me to compare the two, i've not owned a SB so I can't comment on its fit and finish. Perhaps it was as good or better. I can the myford, and although I get the OP was about an ML7, my comments were about the super 7 which has a significant value difference from the ML7

For sure some conjecture is involved, but the underlying thought comes from imprints left by old Model Engineer mags. To check up on it, a quick search found a mention of a Super 7 in 1979 being 1010 pounds, with just a chuck. With the exchange rate at the time, that's about 2650 CDN. You are over 1/2 the value of a car. Add in a bunch of tooling (I believe the QCGB was an option) and you might get to most of it (mecury zehpher for example was 4350 US @ at 1.15 exchange = 5000 CDN). More of course once you transport and import it, but we'll stick with the cost in the native country. Between 68 and 79 there was about 50% inflation so that 2650 S7 (bare bones) should have been about the same price as your SB in '68.

Today a comparable sized Grizzly is less than 5% of the value of a new car. A car was chosen because its common technical product. What's changed? Lots, but my view, supported with practical experience, is one aspect is quality. So it was an argument in a support of high quality lathes and their prices from yesteryear...and that when you find one in spectacular condition it may well be "worth it"

 

[Mcgyver]

Nice Mcgyver. Did you learn scraping through training/work or is this a skill you developed on your own?

thanks. I had an old English tool maker got me started, then its logic, stumbling through the the tediously written Connelly book, and lots of practice. I ended up writing a 12 part series on it that appeared in Home Shop Machinist and am working on lengthy follow up piece "Reconditioning a lathe"

The basic principles of it are very simple and not at all difficult to learn

 

[RobinHood]

Question for @Mcgyver : is the scraping process limited to machines with “soft” (ie, non-induction hardened) surfaces, or have you successfully restored “more modern” slide ways which are “hard” by scraping them VS grinding them?

 

[Mcgyver]

The late Harry Beckely covering scraping a hardened 10ee bed in a long thread on practical machinist. I've briefly tried to make a mark in mine. Theoretically a carbide scraper should be hard enough, but I've concluded I mustn't be half man Harry was. I can barely make a mark. Scraping a bed is a big job, I can't imagine getting through scraping a hardened one. I've got two lathes with hardened beds, a '42 and a '68 (I guess that is modern compared to my older lathes )....iIf/when I get around to doing them, i will find a nice slideway grinder then scrape everything into the new bed...and thats more than enough work to keep me out of trouble

 

[garball]

That Myford on the Island for 15k did sell, diont know how much though. There was another one in the Vancouver area last year that went for 10k plus. Took a couple months. There’s another one now for sale in Langley at Bell for 15K in brand new condition. Just like real estate, get used to it.

 

[calgaryguy]

That Myford on the Island for 15k did sell, diont know how much though. There was another one in the Vancouver area last year that went for 10k plus. Took a couple months. There’s another one now for sale in Langley at Bell for 15K in brand new condition. Just like real estate, get used to it.

Yeah I saw the one at Bell machinery. $15K Yikes!

http://www.bellmachineryltd.com/used_myford_super 7.html

 

[Tom Kitta]

I have no idea why Myford is so expensive. I would not consider it, even in good condition, a big step over mini lathe. In average condition I would pick mini.

I would understand high price if Myford was a luxury lathe in its day - but it was not - it was maybe a step up from a cheap 1960s Atlas. It was a total economy lathe - not a Ferrari. Also its not some uber rare lathe. Its common.

 

[kevin.decelles]

Same reason some of us still have Atari 2600 or an intellivison console in the basement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tom O]

Well you were lucky to have a Atari we had to play and use this!



Actually I had a Atari with about 50 games but my son took it to the Gf’s house and I never saw it again.

 

[George]

Sometimes I wish I had got into the hobby before I shipped all my furniture and stuff over.
https://www.myford.co.uk/#
I could have loaded half a dozen into a container, maybe you could have 1 of them shipped and get it brand new for less than 15k.