Greedy Flipper Alert!

[RobinHood]

1990 Jafo 32JU Milling Machine with Auxiliary Head $21,000

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-busin...illing-machine-with-auxiliary-head/1570521482


Here is a picture of the data plate the seller posted with their ad.


This machine was sold earlier this year in Lethbridge for $5001 + GST = $5251.05 total. Here is the link to that auction.
https://surplus.gov.ab.ca/OA/ItemDetail.aspx?AuctionID=30161

Here is a picture (among many more of the machine) I took of the data plate during the one day it was available for viewing.


Same exact machine at 4 times the price. Now available in the Edmonton area.

 

[Everett]

I don't have $20k to drop on a new toy, but anyone who only puts "kijiji user" as a seller name for an item over a few hundred bucks gets a "back" button click from me automatically. Even a first name with a decent rating is enough for me.
But yeah, 4x the price . . . Twice would be more understandable. More understandable if it was a business but you'd think businesses want their names "out there."

 

[Noltez]

I've had this happen with cars I've sold. I usually sell below market just to get it out of my driveway, but when I let an offroad 4Runner go for <$1k and then saw it it online for $2500 using my pictures, I wasn't too happy about that one. The younger kid tells me this great story in the driveway about how he wants to do this and that and I'm genuinely happy this kids gonna have some fun & learn something too. Nope - moved it 100km away and put a fake safety on it. Fortunately like here the community is pretty smart and knew what condition the truck was actually in.

 

[RobinHood]

Yeah, I am disappointed in folks like that.

I mean a little markup for your efforts fine, but four times is too much. Also could not even be bothered to take out the end mill. Wonder if they even have it hooked up to power?

 

[DPittman]

I've had this happen with cars I've sold. I usually sell below market just to get it out of my driveway, but when I let an offroad 4Runner go for <$1k and then saw it it online for $2500 using my pictures, I wasn't too happy about that one. The younger kid tells me this great story in the driveway about how he wants to do this and that and I'm genuinely happy this kids gonna have some fun & learn something too. Nope - moved it 100km away and put a fake safety on it. Fortunately like here the community is pretty smart and knew what condition the truck was actually in.

Yup the lying about it is what would really get my goat. You give a person a good deal and then they turn around and put the screws to someone else, geesh.

 

[DavidR8]

Saw the same thing happen to a mill here on the Island. Seller bought it a few months prior for half of what he was selling it for. I was interested but at the original price.
And the seller had the audacity to use the same photo as was in the original ad!
I asked why he felt it was worth twice what he paid (accompanied by the original photo...) he told me where to go and how to get there...

 

[Dusty]

Saw the same thing happen to a mill here on the Island. Seller bought it a few months prior for half of what he was selling it for. I was interested but at the original price.
And the seller had the audacity to use the same photo as was in the original ad!
I asked why he felt it was worth twice what he paid (accompanied by the original photo...) he told me where to go and how to get there...

When rear-ends are caught out making shitty moves and revert to being fowl mouthed then you know you got the best of them each and every time. Does it stop them from doing it again likely not but you won!

 

[Tom Kitta]

More like stupid flipper. You go buy *under* market and then sell at market not buy probably at or above market and try to sell for astronomical price

This machine is unlikely to attract a buyer that is non-industrial - i.e. its a large hobby mill and/or small workshop mill. Usually people in that price range know what things are worth. Certainly that can feel a problem if price is up 4x.

What will happen is the guy will sell at a "profit" when machine reaches the price higher then what he paid for it after inflation is accounted for. I.e. he may sell for say 7000 in a year. If you count all work etc. put into moving it around - shipping, loading, unloading etc. they guy will be at a loss.

Government auction is known for in AB to get premium price - usually at or above market - very high. It is not a place to get things to flip.

There is nothing much wrong with flipping if you do it right and put some extra value or effort into it. For example, I flipped a milling machine for around 2x the price but I would not do it again due to the amount of work need netting me like ... maybe $10 per hour or so. I also did the two lathes in similar fashion but that was tons of work as well getting them in the winter over all the passes.

Sometimes I flip not high enough - I sold a set of indexable endmills for $120 just to see then same set sell on eBay for like 134 USD (!)

Sometimes I sell at a loss - it happens to all of us. I broke even on rough 2000 worth of tooling - so hours put into it all went for nothing.

 

[Tom Kitta]

Just to add, there is a similar or larger machine for sale in Red Deer AB for 2750. Its in rougher shape being outside with surface rust. But its less then 3k. They can also load. Certainly one could buy it, clean it up, oil it up etc. and ask 5k for it or maybe even 6k BUT these are large machines - not big market for them. Difficult to sell.

I post a link in member found deals - off FB.

 

[ShawnR]

More like stupid flipper. You go buy *under* market and then sell at market not buy probably at or above market and try to sell for astronomical price

This machine is unlikely to attract a buyer that is non-industrial - i.e. its a large hobby mill and/or small workshop mill. Usually people in that price range know what things are worth. Certainly that can feel a problem if price is up 4x.

What will happen is the guy will sell at a "profit" when machine reaches the price higher then what he paid for it after inflation is accounted for. I.e. he may sell for say 7000 in a year. If you count all work etc. put into moving it around - shipping, loading, unloading etc. they guy will be at a loss.

Government auction is known for in AB to get premium price - usually at or above market - very high. It is not a place to get things to flip.

There is nothing much wrong with flipping if you do it right and put some extra value or effort into it. For example, I flipped a milling machine for around 2x the price but I would not do it again due to the amount of work need netting me like ... maybe $10 per hour or so. I also did the two lathes in similar fashion but that was tons of work as well getting them in the winter over all the passes.

Sometimes I flip not high enough - I sold a set of indexable endmills for $120 just to see then same set sell on eBay for like 134 USD (!)

Sometimes I sell at a loss - it happens to all of us. I broke even on rough 2000 worth of tooling - so hours put into it all went for nothing.

When I read the first post, I thought, well, if the guy got a great deal and can sell at a huge profit, is that not a sign of a fella who knows the market? I think this is the idea of business... but as buyers, of course, especially if we wanted it at the lower price, we do not like to see it. And as Canadians, even more so. I seem to fall into @Tom Kitta 's camp way too often. I buy something cause I think I have to have it, or really want it, fix it up (ie Tractor, Gas powered air compressors, backhoes, Clausing lathe) only to sell at zero gain or a loss after parts (never mind labour). I guess that is why I am not in business. But flipping is not a bad thing, I don't think, unless the seller lies about the condition or hides something that he was told when he bought it or discovered after he bought it. Also, peoples plans change (my backhoe story). I find the story more funny than infuriating. You can ask whatever you want when selling something. The market will decide if you can get it.

I think this seller is dreaming but for a guy who knows nothing about that machine posted, I am saying that based on the opinions expressed here. If I saw the ad in surfing, I would just glance at it cause the machine is out of my league, but I would not know it is overpriced. If someone knew what he wanted, then he might just glance at it too, and move on. It will be interesting to see if it sells.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Mcgyver]

I agree hes dreaming, but than again what I do I know about the Edmonton tool market. I mean its not a Deckel or Aciera...$20,000?

As for flipping/speculating, I don't like lies (essentially fraud) and they can mess up what might be a great deal for us "natural" buyers.... so yeah I don't like them. However if I push my own self interest out of the equation, from an economic standpoint they are in sense market makers - creates a more efficient market & liquidity.

I've done my share of wheeling and dealing to build the shop up, mostly by breaking bulk - by a whole kit and market/sell it individually. Any gain there is more like sweat equity so I don't put myself in the same scoundrel as the pure flipper . otoh if here was something close and easy I could pick for 500 and know I could sell for 1000, profit pays for new toys isn't to me a dirty word.

I do think markets for relatively esoteric thinks like used machinist stuff has gotten much more efficient in the last few years. There's just not near as many of the amazing jaw dropping deals there were 10-15 years ago

 

[kevin.decelles]

For me it is all fair in love and war. I've been on both sides.... and we're all guilty of justifying a behavior that we may gripe about others for.

For example, I envy the time that our retired members have to snipe good deals while I'm working......... but then I smile and think about how awesome it will be when I'm retired! Hoarding is probably a harsher sin (and I'm guilty too btw). Having people 'flip' for a profit is one thing, as we're all adults and if the market will support the price so be it. But people buying up everything simply to 'own' it is sometimes tough to swallow. Example: Good luck finding an anvil in Calgary..... and there are guys with 100+ in their collection.

Just remember that the time to buy something is when you see it....... (gotta run, spider sense tells me there is a shaper for sale somewhere -- got to own another one!)

 

[Johnwa]

For me it is all fair in love and war. I've been on both sides.... and we're all guilty of justifying a behavior that we may gripe about others for.

!)

I’m glad you feel that way! I was feeling guilty about the profit margin on the motor/gearbox I sold you. LOL

 

[combustable herbage]

For me I am the same way you win some you loose some, my best was a box of ibm ribbon cartridges i bought for $0.01 and sold for $110US on ebay and the guy that bought them was so happy and was begging me if I had any more he would buy them he even offered a higher price if I had more so looking at that its win win. I used to go to the federal govt auctions in Regina 25 years ago and there was such little interest I would go and bid on anything I thought would sell on ebay and bid $0.01 on it till they told me I had to bid at least $1 so from then on it was $1.01 but most of the time they were just happy to get rid of it. But I do remember several trips to the dump when we moved thinking why did I buy this?

 

[Dabbler]

Buying for resale is a mixed bag. For the guy that wants to add value, and resell at enough profit to make his time worthwhile, it's all good. I really despise the guys that go around looking for naive sellers and prey on them just to flip things adding no value.

My friend was selling some tools and was selling one of those wide ladders that 2 or 3 steps, that sell new for 160-180 bucks. He was asking 40$ for a new one - a flipper offered him 20$ for it, because he looked desperate - I took out 40$ and handed it to him right there, just to piss of the flipper.

 

[kevin.decelles]

I’m glad you feel that way! I was feeling guilty about the profit margin on the motor/gearbox I sold you. LOL

I’d take another one …..


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[Tom Kitta]

Well, I am going to be selling an RF-25 clone soon. My dad decided he rather have little Rusnok with added Chinese milling table then a RF-25 clone. Rusnok is US made round column that has a guide in the column which prevents swiveling side to side when going up or down.

Hope no one thinks I am a dirty flipper - I expect to work around 10h total on the machine. I am going now back to get to machine few parts for her & oil her up and put her together.

 

[RobinHood]

Just to be clear: I’m not against people buying and selling stuff, rather the opposite. Everybody chooses how they want to make money.

What really bit me about this particular machine was that there were about 4 or 5 of us at the viewing day that were going to genuinely put the machine to good use if we were the high bidder. I know, there was still only ever going to be one winner. We each obviously had similar budgets and stayed within them. The winner only outbid the runner up by 1$. Fine.

Even if the winner’s original intent was to resell the machine (because that‘s what they do), then go ahead. But multiplying the price by FOUR is just greed - that’s where my original beef came from.

If he’d ask $6K to $7K range I would have seriously considered the machine. It for sure would have been on the large size for my needs, but it is in really good condition and came with a bunch of accessories.

A 1985 JAFO F32 U with a DRO was available from a machinery dealer in Edmonton for $6.5K earlier this year. They started out at $8.5K and I was the only one to ever set a foot into their door to even look at it. They kept the price that high for about 2 months. Then started dropping it - I had lost interest by that time and did not go back.

So maybe he’ll eventually drop the price back down to earth if no one buys it at $21K.

It’s all water under the bridge now as I have a more suitable machine size wise...

 

[Johnwa]

The best part is that when Rudy gets rid of that Deckel he’s going to be easy on one of us.

 

[Johnwa]

I’d take another one …..


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I have another gearbox but no motor.