Anyone Use a Floating Tailstock Die Holder?

[CalgaryPT]

I have a unique issue with my BusyBee CT089 lathe. I'm not much of a machinist and normally only use the machine to make bushings, pins and do a lot of facing. But recently I've been doing a lot of manual threading of rods in a vise with a manual die holder. I've never even used the change gears on my lathe because I can't access them due to lack of space in my shop. I don't have room to open the door to the change gears as the machine butts right up to my electronics bench. There are no options for rearranging my shop; I exercised all those years ago.

Anyways, as I get older my hands are less steady and I think my sense of balance and level aren't what they used to be. My threads often come out crooked. I bought a manual hand tapping machine years ago that helps with the taps, but not the dies. I'm wondering if any of you have experience with Tailstock Die Holders and if they are effective. If so, this could be a solution to my problem.

The tailstock taper on the CT089 is a MT3, and I see there is a model available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B06VSK9NQD/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_F9S068G430HJ4NT0R6EX

Do these work well? Are there better quality ones anyone knows of? Thanks in advance.

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[terry_g]

I made my own die holder. It was pretty simple to make.
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[Mcgyver]

Can't comment on those in particular but as tool, I made a set decades ago....wouldn't want to be without them Super handy. Just watch you don't exceed the taper's holding power or you can mar the tailstock taper pretty easily.

 

[CalgaryPT]

I'm assuming you can thread with these either manually or under (lowest speed) power?

 

[CalgaryPT]

If it floats, doesn't this eliminate the risk of it spinning the taper and ruining it?

 

[Mcgyver]

If it floats, doesn't this eliminate the risk of it spinning the taper and ruining it?

you're right, I missed that

 

[CalgaryPT]

Think I am going to try one of these. Even if I only thread manually on the lathe I can see the utility. Not sure why this never occured to me before. Funny how personal limitations suddenly make you see the value of tools you never thought about before. Thanks.

 

[YotaBota]

What diameter dies are you using?
I built my own as well. Used a piece of 1.125 round stock, bored a .500 hole down the center and bored one end to fit the die. A piece of .500 rod held in the tail stock chuck is the slide shaft and it works well for the smaller stuff. I also made another piece to hold a tap wrench that fits the same .500 slide rod that works really well in the drill press. The pin holds the tap up when realigning for the next hole to be tapped.
I didn't get a picture in the lathe but if you want I can set it up and take a pic.

 

[PeterT]

The quality of those MT shanked die kits kind of vary. The one I bought through Ebay looks somewhat similar to Amazon picture. I use it occasionally but its so-so quality (India made). I didn't have high expectations but the bailout was harvesting the MT shank to make my own. Die heads & die wrenches seem to vary. On some of the cast handle types, the recess is too tight radially to allow maximum die opening, so risk cutting undersize threads. I think I'm going to open the bore on mine using boring head because its basically useless as-is. Also the detent set screw positions don't seem match the divots on the dies so sometimes you are left with just one screw engaged. I'm not sure who is at fault there the die makers or the handle makers. I bought a progressive set of metric dies from KBC, I think made in eastern Europe & they all have the same divot pattern & they all have a lateral set screw across the slit to adjust size. So (pics) I machined a few heads & used a drill rod for handles. I didn't integrate an MT shank to these, that was what the Ebay purchase experiment was about. But I find as long as the die is perpendicular to the quill barrel initially, it tends to start straight on the stock & that's all that really matters once a few threads are started. I think my handles could have been beefier, a round x-section is not optimal in torque. Or just weld on handles & then you're done.

One thing to watch on the tailstock die kits is some are blanked off on the end because that's what engaged the MT shank. Unfortunately that limits the threading to a very short length. The one I have kind of knocks down & has a larger through hole like my shop made heads. So you could carry on & make a threaded rod for that matter. Once I got my head around threading on the lathe that's generally what I do. But I know smaller machines with complicated or time consuming gear changes kind of deflates enthusiasm. I find changing gears to metric is enough to make me break out the dies for those. Bigger threads need a lot of gronk though single point cutting actually starts to be easier at a certain point

When I took metal shop in high school we threaded under power with the die handle stopped against (read dragging along) the lathe bed which seems a bit black-smithy to me. I don't do it personally, but I'm also admittedly anal about preserving the condition of my ways. I've seen others use a protective sleeve so it doesn't mar the ways.

Phil built a shop made head from scrap recently

 

[CalgaryPT]

What diameter dies are you using?
I built my own as well. Used a piece of 1.125 round stock, bored a .500 hole down the center and bored one end to fit the die. A piece of .500 rod held in the tail stock chuck is the slide shaft and it works well for the smaller stuff. I also made another piece to hold a tap wrench that fits the same .500 slide rod that works really well in the drill press. The pin holds the tap up when realigning for the next hole to be tapped.
I didn't get a picture in the lathe but if you want I can set it up and take a pic.

I have both 1" and 1.5" dies.

 

[cuslog]

An easy DIY project.
They work well. That one is for larger dies, I made one for smaller too.
I power feed them quite often. Smaller dia. work you can just grip the knurling by hand, larger, tougher going just plug the handle into a hole and turn by hand or power feed.

 

[darrin1200]

I made one similar to Howard’s. I made it out of deletion and it slides on a 1/4” rod. I have one for 1” dies as well as 1.5”. They are very effective, but limiting in the depth/length they can thread. Most of my threading is only 5-8mm.

 

[George]

Here is a good video made by Ades Workshop, he used to be a machinist back in his apprentice days, now has a little shed where he does hobby stuff.

I am in the process of making one of these.

 

[PeterT]

cuslog shows the tommy bar handle doesn't have to be on the bed ways, its resting on compound assembly which is preferred. Maybe situation specific but anyways a better way to go whenever possible IMO

 

[CalgaryPT]

Thanks everyone for the feedback

 

[Everett]

I've wanted to make one of these for years now. One advantage of not having a chance to get to it is gathering ideas from others who have, lol . . .

 

[guitarchitect]

Thought i would chime in - brand new user so i gotta get my posts up! I'll echo what @PeterT said... I used one of the made-in-india amazon specials that cost about $70 canadian. I had to superglue a bunch of brass shimstock into the different die holders in order to get the dies to sit square inside the holder, perpendicular to the Z axis of the holder. The tailstock shaft is MT2 and it's fine, but it felt like whatever steel they used for the body of the die holder wasn't going to take a lot of allen screw in+out. I also experienced the hole issue - all of my dies have two divots at 180deg to each other, but the holder had three sets screws at 120deg to each other. As a result I had to shim the dies into center too - with no ability to naturally center the die other than with the grub screws just touching the surface of the die, it was the only way to get the die consistently centered in the holder.

In the end it wasn't worth the cheap price - I got a holder from niche toolworks in the US and it has been much, much better.

 

[Janger]

I have a manual approach which works for me at least. I meant to post this a long time back but here we go. I'm doing it now since I'm doing it in the shop now!

The idea is pretty simple arrange your compound so the die holder is on the stock and the handle rests on it and has room to travel. Then snug the tail stock up against the back of it to ensure a very straight start. Use a bar into the chuck as a handle to turn it. Then not under power (estop engaged here kids) advance the chuck and at the same time with your other hand advance the tailstock to keep the die straight. Do this for a while and the die is fully engaged. Then I back off the compound and turn the handle while holding the chuck in place. Nothing fancy and it works for me anyway. It’s a bit slow. But quicker than single point turning with the thread dial. Much less room for error.

I learned this from my instructor at Sait when I took the cont ed class on machining.

 

[Janger]

Threads….

 

[Tom Kitta]

I cheat. I put hex die in 6 jaw chuck (3 jaw would work as well) and put the stock in the collet chuck. make the collet chuck proper torque. When putting in the hex die either rest on chuck face or use parallels to make sure it is not off in your chuck.

Then you have no limit (well lathe bed) of how much you can thread. Use plenty of cutting oil and go slow. Works great. I did 1/2 -13 just few days ago like this.

I also have floating die holders but not complete and even when complete they have a limit on how much you can thread.

Hex dies are common - the ones I have are from Canadian tire out of all places - very old set. The hex dies used to be only for re-threading, but not anymore - at least not in the last 10 years. The hex shape is so that you can use a regular monkey wrench on them.

I also use @Janger method if I do not have proper die - unless your lathe can move ultra slow it is full manual.