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7X12 swivel cutting bandsaw

CalgaryPT

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Premium Member
I'm off researching a new 7x12 swivel cutting bandsaw for the home shop. I outgrew the old 4x6 on a unsolicited job. I'd love to give my old Craftex 4x6 away for a song ....does this site have a "Tools for Sale/Wanted" forum or restrictions on these type of postings? I just need a good story now for the new saw so I can explain to my wife why a big truck with a lift gate is drop-shipping a 400 lbs box to our garage (yet again). Perhaps I should get a gift certificate to the spa that day?.......hummmmmm.
 
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Jwest7788

Joshua West
Administrator
I'm off researching a new 7x12 swivel cutting bandsaw for the home shop. I outgrew the old 4x6 on a unsolicited job. I'd love to give my old Craftex 4x6 away for a song ....does this site have a "Tools for Sale/Wanted" forum or restrictions on these type of postings? I just need a good story now for the new saw so I can explain to my wife why a big truck with a lift gate is drop-shipping a 400 lbs box to our garage (yet again). Perhaps I should get a gift certificate to the spa that day?.......hummmmmm.


Theres actually a classifieds section you can hit up here for your bandsaw:
http://canadianhobbymetalworkers.com/forums/classifieds.20/
Make sure you're over the minimum post limit (3) before you post a link to an external site though!

Yeah, the "Spa cover" one of my favorites, that or strategic shipping on girls night, lol.
 
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CalgaryPT

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CalgaryPT Which 7x12 saw are you eyeing?
Hi Janger. Thanks for your question. I'm a bit of a research junkie/geek, so you'll probably regret asking the question ;)

I have just started, but so far I've looked at the Craftex (BusyBee house brand), Princess Auto (various manufacturers), Magnum (KMS house brand), Harbor Freight, King Industrial, Grizzly, Baileigh and Ellis models. The USA discount options (Harbor Freight and Grizzly) mostly drop off when you factor in quality vs. shipping and import duties (Free Trade was a wet dream). As you may know, when you look at performance reviews Harbor Freight crashes and burns. They're hit-and-miss "passable" even if you buy the extended warranty AND live next door to an outlet—which we don't in Canada. Grizzly is far better (about the same quality-wise as Busy Bee who they had a "non-compete" clause with for many years until recently)—but the warranties, shipping and parts/service for Canucks can be scary, or so much of a pain you just suck it up and write off the the purchase as a financial lesson, vowing to never buy from them again (welcome to the club).

Magnum 7x12's are the KMS house brand (like Craftex for BusyBee). Princess Auto's 7x12 (SKU: 3460015) is similar to BusyBee, but above Harbor Freight models in quality from what I have heard, experienced through a few cuts myself, and read online. One advantage of the PA model is that PA excels at customer service/returns and seems to have no issue if you don't like the product (at least in my experience). I think the PA model is somewhere between Harbor Freight and Grizzly. However, for me, 3/4 HP is what I call "Kraft Dinner Passable": it's OK....but would be GREAT with some extra cheesie dust (HP).

On to the "Made in the USA" models. First, this isn't always 100% true. As with so many claims, you need to evaluate the "Manufactured in" vs "Assembled in" nonsense, which most companies hide in semantics and legalese. Bottom line is if the extra dollars you pay go for higher labour/union costs in North America vs. better quality parts, then you're just paying extra money to SAY your band saw is made in North America. Assembly likely isn't your issue. It's probably not any better quality, assuming it works out of the gate and has a good warranty. Ellis and Baileigh models are WAY too expensive for a retired guy like me—even though I've previously imported both a Baileigh 48" Mag Brake and an Ellis Belt Grinder a few years ago through Ecco Machinery in BC. I just have a small residential garage hobby/shop in NW Calgary. But with the dollar the way it is, and the darn import and shipping costs on the US stuff........I'm dying here. Also, just try importing industrial machinery into Canada w/o a business name—you get treated like an al-Qaeda operative by Canada Customs.

I looked at the 1500 Series bandsaws from Ellis. But when I called a dealer in Manitoba that handles the import duties and CSA Approvals (req'd on all USA machines) they said they had issues with it and pushed me towards the 1600 Series. Sadly, that's a $5500+ CDN price tag (w/o shipping) through Empire Tools in Winnipeg. Also, the Ellis machines are "dry" saws--no coolant systems, which I am skeptical of...but I'm trying to remain open-minded and not think they are just trying to hose me on consumables (do I sound negative?). Every industrial saw I have seen at metal shops uses coolant, so....this tells me something....even for my small hobby shop environment. Of note here is that Baileigh isn't all USA built as perceived. Ellis is better in terms of North American-built from what I can tell, but you still pay for those union-impacted labor costs (not a judgement, just an observation).

Having said all this, I'm leaning towards the King KC-712DS (Dual Swivel) for a few reasons. First, I want a swivel model. In a small garage where you can't pivot your stock on the saw vice this is a deal-breaker. If the saw only cuts 90 degrees horizontal and you need to pivot the vice and stock to cut a 45 degree mitre, that means you need a lot of room to swing a 12 foot piece of tubing (I didn't do the trigonometry on it, but I just know stuff in your shop needs to get moved to make it happen). I also like that it is a 1 HP model (unlike the Princess Auto "Heavy Duty" 3/4 HP 110V model (which I doubt is actually a real 3/4 HP)). The King Industrial is pre-wired for 220V which I also like, as I have an unused 220V single phase plug in my garage. The Magnum, while gear-driven (a big advantage), cannot be re-wired to 220V (a big disadvantage) at least for me.

Best of all King Industrial is out of Quebec (despite their silly hockey team, Celine Dion, several other things Albertans hate). Yes, the machines are Asian-made like others, but they do have all the parts and service. KMS told me the Magnum models (which are pretty good all around, sold to schools etc., so don't get me wrong) lack a bit when it comes to parts. KMS carries the most common parts for the Magnum house brand—such as Acme nut replacements, etc., according to the Calgary store Manager (Vince). But King has been around since 1910 (in various forms), and has ALL parts. I actually called King from Calgary to Quebec today to ask about this model and any problems they had with it. I really wish I spoke French. The guy I chatted to was great and SOOOOO polite, but struggled with redneck Alberta English. I liked that their call-routing covered Parts, Service and Complaints, as well as an option to chat to a real person still (who does that anymore?).

I'm in the grey zone of gear drive vs. belt operation for a 3/4 inch blade. Higher end 1 inch saw saws use a gear box. I could buy the Magnum (KMS) 7x12 with a gear box (which I am still considering), but I wonder if a low end gear drive sounds like it has more potential for pain than a simple replaceable pulley/belt and motor drive (as on the King KC-712DS) that I can source parts for easily? If I were running a commercial metal shop I'd think differently and go for a gear driven 1 inch model. But if I had that kind of money I'd be hanging out on investment forums and not geeking out about metal fabrication as a hobby anyways.

That's my 2 cents worth (0.78 USD). Hope some of it was helpful. My first preference is the King KC-712DS at about $2700 (plus lift gate service). Second preference is the Magnum MAG-UE712SG at $1999 (plus lift gate service). There are some higher end machines that I have excluded, but I'm already in divorce territory at this price range when my wife finds out :)

Cheers.

P.S. I'll be letting my old 4x6 go for charity prices in the Classified section of this forum in a few days...just to help out the newbies.
 

Janger

(John)
Administrator
Vendor
Hey great research! Love it! I have the 5x9 swivel CX116 from busy bee. I find the swivel is just not as handy as I expected and that feature sure brings up the price on the larger saws. The King KC-712DS at $2700 is more than double their fixed model. I understand about the swing problem though. I have a oddball solution though that might help. I put my makita abrasion saw on a lazy susan base. so now I spin the saw instead of the material - the vise is still a pain to adjust though and you have to get out a wrench and fool around - accuracy is vague. But ... it works. Maybe worth thinking about. Make a BIG lazy susan for the whole saw and upgrade the vise to make angle cuts convenient. :>

You could also go to the maa auction where they are selling some hydmech bandsaws.... fill up the garage though with those big tools.

I find I blow through blades on my bandsaw pretty easily. They split at the weld. I've split maybe 5 in the 18 months I've owned it. I do relieve the pressure when not in use and try not to over tension while cutting but it seems to be tricky. Sufficient tension to prevent the blade from jamming in the material also seems to cause splits. The hydraulic feed may be uneven. Anybody have any comments?
 

CalgaryPT

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Premium Member
Humm.....I've never split through a blade yet....maybe I am just lucky. I try to follow the old rule of thumb to use a blade TPI that allows at least two - three teeth always in contact with the stock. I know when I'm cutting 0.25 wall and forget to change the blade if I slide in some 16 gauge it makes a heck of a racket and I think I'm about to split a blade. But so far it hasn't happened. I may have just jinxed myself though.

Thanks for the Lazy Susan idea...it gave me something to think about for my tubing notcher!
 

PeterT

Ultra Member
Premium Member
I have an older Taiwan model, kind of odd-ball size (7x11?) 3-speed gearbox. Bought it from House of Tools mid/late 90's when they existed. Somewhat similar to that King but without the nice swivel vise. The only other consideration is mine can swivel upright & bolt on a mini table. I really like that for plate work, cutting out shapes etc. In fact it stays that way out of laziness. I'll just push through a 1" diameter slug to length, but any more & I'll remove the table & return to chop-off mode. I have one beef & its the vise end is too far away from the blade (like maybe 2") in 90-deg cut mode. That's a common complaint but I have seen lots of remedies like capturing a smaller vise in the jaws or extending the vise with bolt-on extensions.

Lost of bandsaw mod ideas here, particularly the smaller ones.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/show-us-your-hf-4x6-bandsaw-modifications.87/
 

Dabbler

ersatz engineer
Ok... Such a good analysis... Let me add just a detail or 2. I agree with everything CalgaryPT says (great mention of Ellis BTW). Where I went with it, however was that I would be operating my shop out in the lane due to divorce, so - I waited for an Emerson 6X10 ish (Canadian made, welded steel construction, much like a very primitive Ellis) in good condition for $500 with some extra blades.

You can wait for deals out there, but if you're only cutting a few times per year, scoop up CalgaryPT's saw. Inexpensive saws can, with a little work (fixing bearings etc) be very good for light duty work.

P.S. I almost bought the Busy Bee swivel 5X7 saw CX116 with the reversible vice. My needs are pretty small, and it looked well built (surprise!).
 
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kylemp

Well-Known Member
I'm off researching a new 7x12 swivel cutting bandsaw for the home shop. I outgrew the old 4x6 on a unsolicited job. I'd love to give my old Craftex 4x6 away for a song ....does this site have a "Tools for Sale/Wanted" forum or restrictions on these type of postings? I just need a good story now for the new saw so I can explain to my wife why a big truck with a lift gate is drop-shipping a 400 lbs box to our garage (yet again). Perhaps I should get a gift certificate to the spa that day?.......hummmmmm.
What do you want for your saw? It's funny you should say this, I need a bandsaw because I started modifying mine to swivel.. It's almost there but I needed more machine travel for some things and I'm just getting there now, so I'm looking for a cheap quick stop gap until that's done.
 

CalgaryPT

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Vendor
Premium Member
What do you want for your saw? It's funny you should say this, I need a bandsaw because I started modifying mine to swivel.. It's almost there but I needed more machine travel for some things and I'm just getting there now, so I'm looking for a cheap quick stop gap until that's done.
I only want 40 bucks....I'll post the ad and some pics in the classified in an hour or so. It works great.
 

Jwest7788

Joshua West
Administrator
@kylemp If you pickup that bandsaw, I'll likely be open to buying off you when you're done with it, I'm in need of a stop gap too, and as much as I love my powered hacksaw, it's not really a delicate tool at all, haha.
 

CalgaryPT

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Premium Member
@kylemp If you pickup that bandsaw, I'll likely be open to buying off you when you're done with it, I'm in need of a stop gap too, and as much as I love my powered hacksaw, it's not really a delicate tool at all, haha.
Believe it or not, someone from the forum saw the thread and is picking it up at 2 today. It didn't even make it into the Classified section.
 

CalgaryPT

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This is too funny -- I remember those old power hacksaws. We had one in our Junior High School decades ago. Of course we also had a shop built pulse jet engine the kids were allow to take home and play with.....apparently safety wasn't a big priority.
 

Tom Kitta

Ultra Member
This is a bit late but today's auction has two S20 band saws for sale. They are bigger then what you are looking for and I have no place to store one but they are true industrial machines. Hard to outgrow a 2000lbs band saw in a home shop.
 
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